Davies Craig Electric Water Pump

this could be an issue

in regards to flow rates caused by modifying flow path

by moving the turbo water outlet from in front of the water pump (which would suck the water through the turbos) and putting it in front of the radiator, you create a parallel path



If path B has much larger flow restrictivity than path A, then i'm guessing that not much water will flow down path B

its much like an electrical circuit, you have 2 paths in parallel and one path has a much higher resistivity than the other path - so which way does the current flow? it's split according to the resistivity ratio of the 2 paths

in other words, if path B is 10 times more flow restrictive than path A, then 10 times more water will flow in path A than in path B

 

hey guys

i've got a few things to say

i was just talking to a mech engineer at work (i'm an electrical engineer and we build small powerstations run by turbo charged diesel gensets so the guys here know some stuff about turbo charging and cooling and to top it off, they are car-boys at the same time so the applications of their knowledge should be spot on)

i mentioned the chewy method to this guy, and showed him the flow diagrams, and he told me not to do it

firstly, you might not have any flow through the turbos, or far too little -> overheating turbos... he told me that to get it to work that way, with flow to the turbos, you'd want to put a small booster pump in the turbo circuit to ensure some flow goign through there (which i guess you could do just before it tees up into the top radiator pipe)

secondly, without a thermostat your engine may run too cold (especially in winter)... now this would be overcome with the EWP controller, but without it, your car may run a bit like it does in the early morning when your engine is too cold

thirdly, flow rate is important -> if your flow rate is too high, it will actually not remove as much heat from your engine... he has dealt with a couple of cars in the past where it was overheating due to a water flow rate that is too high


in summary, i now think my previously mentioned #1 proposal (not the chewy method) is the best way to do it

it's also more user friendly for other zedders to install, because there is no thermostat removal, no anything removal except the stock water pump... you will get a block off plate that covers the old WP location, and it will have 2 pipes coming out of it, 1 will be the inlet to the new EWP and 1 will be the outlet from the new EWP... you would use a liquid gasket to form a barrier between the inlet and outlet regions on the blockoff plate

this has a proven flow path so you are safe in that regard - the only risk i can see is if the flow rate is too high due to the 110L/min pump (i'm not sure how much of an issue this is... but i have a flow pressure curve for the pump which i will post when i get home from work)

 

why would the flow change?

there wouldn't be any reason for the flow to change, unless you tapped the return pipes into the upper radiator hose... which is probably a good thing...

i don't know about everyone else, but i am going to buy a controller when they come out, and the thermostat is going to be removed when i install the pump (prior to getting the controller).

i think it is up to everyone to do what they feel is best...

note: this group buy is ONLY covering the pump itself, what you all do with it is your own business... however... when chewy and I do our setups, i'm sure we can get brackets, plates, etc made up for people interested...

i'm not trying to offend anyone, i just want to make it clear to everyone what is going on.

 

ok well to let people know,

i am going to do the simple implementation

i will get a blockoff plate in the shape of the old water pump just like the one that chewy cutout

but he only has 1 pipe coming out of it, i will have 2

i will connect this up to hosing, which will run to the EWP which will be sitting low near the radiator, probably just in front of it or something like that

anyone that wants a simple implementation, i recommend that you do it the same way as i am going to do it - this will effectively swap the mechanical water pump for the electric one - u will use the existing thermostat and probably won't even need to buy the controller when it is released. Your pump will be on all the time, and will circulate the coolant in the exact same directions as the stock pump

i will look into getting that plate made up with the 2 tubes sticking out of it, but first i want to know how many i will need to get

so please post here saying you want "maTTz blockoff plate with 2 tubes" and i'll add you to the list

then i will design it up and get some prices

 

Just bought the UAS Twin pass radiator & thermofan, has whett my whistle

Didn't have time to read all this right now, but might be interested now that the thermo fan is all set up. Mind you from what I flicked through sounds pretty involved and there is still no price on the controller for the pump... pretty sure the price is roughly the same as the pump itself!?!? But I could be completely wrong.


Anyway I will be getting back to this page soon to read it when I can, but just wanted to express interest. And was wondering if the cut-off date is still the same seeing as all the debate as to how to fit the thing is still going on.

 

sounds good

jump on board

i just got the samples today, the pump and fan


you can see the pump and fan there, also my blockoff plate with 2 hose connectors that i bought off Blackwoods for $6 each that need to be welded into the plate after they are trimmed down to size... there is some radiator hosing there aswell, in the blue - which looks to be identical to the hosing used in the HKS turbohardpipe kit


this is my blockoff plate in place, however i found it hard to screw in the 2 bottom bolts, so i will enlarge all the drill holes slightly to give it a bit more freedom. however, and this is disturbing me a bit until someone comforts me enough, the centre ring on the block that mounts the stock water pump seems to be slightly recessed angle-ing in towards the centre... this may make it hard to get a direct seal on it! i bought some liquid gasket, but i'm not sure if that will make a good seal on the "point" of that angled bit :sick: :unsure:



and if you have a dremel, then why not at the same time go and polish your radiator pipes both top and bottom it takes AGES to do it with sandpaper, i hate that crap! painting those TB covers is sweet also~ :zlove:


:thumbsup:

 

that looks brilliant!

my car is running at a very good temp these days so might see what its like with thermo fan

 

running nice in this weather,

but this weather is hardly challenging right?

you know those hot days where it's stinking? and then you're unlucky enough to hv to drive ur Z and ur stuck in traffic and ur thinking "oh shite i hope this will be ok"

hehe well that weather is waiting for us in jan and feb...

so i have a KOYO twin pass radiator now, the thermo fan, the water pump - all ready to take on mother nature~ :thumbsup:

 

yer I know but still

30c day which was a pretty reasonable test, I was expecting it to be higher because the gauge in the dash reads it as being more than that. My intentions are still to get a twin pass, go elec pump + thermo fan though.

based on where the gauge sits for the in dash water temp it'd be about 100c



mine would be sitting just above that line in the organge

hence I was rather worried.

 

It would probly pay to get an aftermarket water temp guage

While you are playing with all those fittings it wouldn't be toooooo much extra work to instal. Further more it would give you an exact method to measure the difference between the 2 methods (mech and elec)

 

BTW I can post pics of the difference in space with a thermofan

It changes the whole look of the engine bay!

 

POST! :zlove: maybe in the thermo fan thread though

 

I'm pulling out after a conversation with the guys at UAS today

My reasoning:
They reckoned they had a this pump in with their last engine and it ran hotter than it did with the standard!?!?

Also seems invloved after reading the rest of the posts, and im not in it for power gains or anything like that, PLUS I installed a brand new normal water pump only 1000kms ago so it would be a bit of a waste!


But for those who are still in the guys at UAS didn't make a plate to cover the hole, but simpily cut the end off the factory water ppump and welded a small alloy plate to the end, so maybe worth investigating???

will go post pic of thermofan soon!

 

yeah fair enough....

i am going to extend the group buy while we are in the development stage... (if people object they can email me and i'll sort something out...)

we might even be able to get just a few at that price as we are going to get a few thermo fans too..

 

if UAS kept the stock pump there

but just gutted it as per some volunteer instructions by DC, then they probably mounted it in the lower radiator pipe also

thats the wrong place to put it on our car, perhaps its ok for a simple car though

we have hoses that will end up being backfed if the pump is located on the radiator exit hose, so thats not the way to do it if you want to keep the coolant flow in the same direction as stock

ZzzZzzZzz, can you pls ask UAS where they installed the DC water pump? If they connected it to the hose exiting the bottom of the radiator

cheers,
Matt.

 

Your best bet would be to talk to John, I live a fair ways from UAS

And now that my work is done I don't have any reason to go there.

Pretty sure that John's email is sales@uniqueautosports.com

Dunno if he will respond for a few days though becausethey finish up work after tomorrow until the 3rd of jan. If you emailed tonight you might get a responce though

 

yep

John told me via email that they installed it into the lower radiator pipe

I'm of the opinion that doing it that way is the wrong way to do it, after looking at our cooling flow diagram

So I'm not surpised that their engine ran hotter

He mentioned that they played around with different types of thermostats (nissan have 2 different ones) and also a screw-threaded one

But pushing water from that direction seems to me to risk pushing water backwards through the heater/turbo pipes, which is in the opposite direction to the water flow after it goes through the heads - so the 2 flows meet head-on and result in less flow overall

I think if you want to install it in the lower radiator hose then you need to re-route the turbo and heater hose as per chewy's method, however i think that if u do that then you also need a booster pump in the turbo/heater flowpath before it meets the upper radiator connection

I should have my blockoff plate with 2 pipes welded onto it by wednesday arvo, so i'll have pics then :thumbsup:

Cheers,
Matt.

 

why

would running without a thermostat lead to running too cold when both the pump and fan will be run off the temp sensor?

 

it won't

if you have the controller, then you won't run too cold because it will turn the fan off until you warm up to the set temp

but i don't think you want the pump controlled by the temp controller, that wouldn't be good in my opinion because you wont' have much flow and parts of your engine will be much hotter than wherever you have located the temp sensor but without flow that sensor won't be seeing it

 

ah ok

yeah I see what you mean, was gonna suggest running at like 1/3rd speed til warm but it's hard to know just how fast it needs to run for it to not develop hot spots.