UAS Pivoting Upper Control Arms GB Discussion thread

It was good to talk to you yesterday at length about these arms, the cotter pin update is great considering the grub screw system did show signs off movement.
It's going to interesting to see how the " O ring " keeps road grim out and where it ends up
I guess using the first GB buyers to test and revise models is a great way to improve things.

ross

 

quote .. "... they certainly will NOT be immune to ware or breaking ..."

.. many thanks for your post mr P ... i am not aware of too many car parts that are immune from wear and tear .. a fact of life for us all it seems .....

the information provided in you last two posts is appreciated and useful to current participants and purchasers down the line ... there does remain, however, the three unanswered questions ... it would indeed be, perhaps, unfortunate if a lack of answers was interpreted as a 'positive' to each question .....

 

I liked Chili's post, now zapped. Me thinks double standards here, if Chilli for example posted what you have recently, he would be infractioned into next decade. There must be a Shardy Shack exclusion zone, like a force field??

Re the three questions is this a Black Baz riddle again???? Hmm I must have missed something as I don't know what questions they are, or were.

I can only imagine, I started to and ended up on the dark side, cynical zone. I say it is good to be sceptical it can be healthy for ones survival in this mad world we live, but not cynical. So Barry if you have worthy relevant questions on the subject at hand, then ask away.

 

Why are you being so unreasonable with Baz John ??? You are asking him, not only for a worthy question, but ALSO a relevant one !! WTF??.

John, It is quite clear you ( just like Rob) are also avoiding my fully irrelevant and totally worthless questions re plaid, tartan or paisley coatings. So given that I am a GB participant, given that I did pay my full deposit ( without making a drama about a refund), given that I have not had a single reply to all of my B&ll$h!t posts, its seems totally unreasonable of you to NOW continue to post replies to BB's similar posts and never respond to mine.

And now you are giving HIM the opportunity to post a whinge about the impossibility of him being able to ever post a question that would meet your requirements - you are effectively telling him to shut the F%c( up, without you ever giving ME a chance to have a similar whinge. This is not very fair behaviour of you John

Now, you may not know this, but I am undoubtedly an alcoholic, as I never get on this board sober, or without a full wine glass ( generally my 5th of the night) in front of me, and i just troll these topics trying to pick a fight with people, ( totally unsuccessful as yet but hope springs eternal) - so perhaps if you demanded that I make a post while totally sober, that would be a similarly impossible task for me , and I could post a whinge about it ..then we ( you and I ) could get into a fight about it.....and then i would be able to feel important.....So please John.... I'm just asking for a little help here .

 

Oh dear, this is gold. I love your honnesty. It is day time though? I had three last night and a beer, at mother in laws 70th. That is a big night for me. That is glasses not bottles to btw.

Happy to refund, and starting second run already with so much demand. Next batch will be more expensive, as more costly to make as being made here in Australia now by top shelf company, not cheap, instead of OS. I could have taken the much cheaper option, and shame some don't appreciate it, but then those involved in the GB do it seems, funny that.

PS
I like the message on the bottom of your sig in green.

 

thank you Mr P .. finally it would seem that some elements of the smoke and mirrors program is beginning to dissipate; truly an encouraging development ... keep it up.

you are really a laugh a minute .. and despite some intervening nonsense posts, you well know there are no exclusion zone with my posts .. you have gone out of your way, via the "acolyte army, to ensure the majority of my posts in this thread have been whacked ... clear evidence of this is the fact that i posted two highly relevant posts (1 clarifying the question / 2. sorting fact from fiction) in direct response to your post " hhmmm .. really" of 14 november ... your somewhat "off" post remains whereas my two posts have disappeared ... so who has an exclusion zone .. only UAS it seems with considerable protection through the entire thread ...

and so, the Questions repeated :-

Quote: UAS Project Zed - pic 26.

'.. we are designing top arms to rotate in the middle as well as roll or pivot each end while staying parallel to stop them wearing out bearings ..."

1. apart from the grub screw/cotter pin variation, are there any other differences between the advertised "ready to go" version and the yet to appear GB version ..??

2. the pivoting/swivelling/rotating area in the middle (the twisting section). This, i understand, is the location of the brass/copper bushes or sleeves .. did, at any point, Fulcrum/Fulcrum engineers question the suitability of this area/set up for road use ... ???

3. at any point, did anyone in Bosnjak engineering (other than Terry or Dave) question this same aspect of the arms/pivoting area for road use ..??? the point here being that a unit for track use will normally be more likely to undergo regular maintenance and inspection ...

 

Ok here goes a good try, as nothing new and a repeat mostly. A fairly sensible approach so I will answer.
1. As explained the main body components are machined to counter sink and then TIg welded, different and better metals used and treatments, including the end spacers.
All the machining and coating and treating etc is all finished as of Friday, just getting bearings and installing and assembling.

2. Yes as anything aftermarket suspension wise is a ?

3. NO although I did. We regularly inspect play in front and rear of cars when they come in for service, and often find play and most workshops don't check. This is why we made these for reasons covered extensively in this thread, so won't bother repeating, unless you think really warranted? I am wondering who you may have been talking to who has been talking to? That knows better than two automotive engineers specialising in suspension and designing after market components, a mechanical engineer and a V8 Supercar mechanical engineer and mechanic? Maybe you have some vast experience or training I don't know about? You and Ross need to look in the mirror re smoke and mirrors, as plenty of innuendo, and I heard a rumour, story, phone calls, this and that. Put your cards on the table. I am all in.

Have a good weekend.

 

OK everyone. Lets pull heads in and keep the

thread open...:bash::bash::bash:

 

Hopefully this will now satisfy that great army of aerial sexual athletes(you know, the ones who do give a flying ****)and who have been writing to Baz, and I can now obtain the Adjustable/Swiveling Front Upper Control Arms that I and many long suffering customers have been patiently awaiting. Amen.

 

Tested, FAIL, wear( movement) low K's
Maker's, FAIL , change.
Change makers, changed product,
Testing on changes, NIL , because UAS and rob said ok.
Question answered ,NIL , for months,
12 months to test, what about years, by users, Quote John ( early days) last arms you will have to buy, we fixed nissans problems,but then they will wear
rushed to production, maybe $$$$ clouded
Go luck to buyers,
manufacter are second to none,
Sorry Chili, John kept people in the dark,
read his post over and over and you will see the truth.

ross

 

i've read your post over and over also and it doesn't make much sense, are you drunk?

 

Why cant you just be quiet. You are not in the group buy, stop polluting the thread.
If you have allegations about poor engineering or poor manufacture, please make em, quote your sources or go away.
This sort of rubbish "WHAT IF" post makes you look like an idiot.
I didnt see you doing the same thing in the Midori arm group buy despite the fact they have known strength and reliability issues.
At the moment you have NO credibility because your allegations or finger pointing have amounted to nothing. You have shaped up to be nothing more than a trouble maker.

Your entire reason for posting in this thread is to create conflict. You are not involved in any way shape or form. Make your point and move on !
I hope whoever is feeding you what amounts to customer classified information from B&J is taken to task and sacked.

This is a propriety design from UAS and IMO they should be dealt with speedily and harshly.
Just the fact that any information on this product has left that workshop not through the correct channels would be enough for me to terminate any involvement with B&J.

How long will it be before your dodgy source onsells the drawings to China and we get flooded with inferior camber arms based on these? It happened to Midori, it can happen to these.
IMO you are as dodgy as your source. Now get out of the thread

 

Just answer me two questions Ross(NOT THREE)....

When did you last see(or hear)ANY Manufacturer, Wholesaler, Retailer or Advertising Agency report every hiccup, failure or shortcoming that took place during Development and Production of an item they were developing and offering for sale?

NEVER!!!!

Why do you expect UAS to be any different?

Get off the bandwagon(before you destroy the enthusiasm of yet another supporter of all things Zed).

 

This thread has been created to allow discussion on the product and process without cluttering the main group buy thread.
All forum members are welcome to Post here, and UAS / Rob260 will endeavour to answer your questions here.

 

UNRAVELLING ANSWERS, SOMEWHAT (UAS) .. a magnum opus

Unravelling Answers, Somewhat (UAS) .... a magnum opus .....

Finally, we move to the final stanza. thanks Mods for a creative solution on a GB now some 5-6 months overdue; hopefully the solution will not set all manner of precedents for future GBs in providing unlimited protection to sellers and denying members a right to know what they are getting.

thank you Mr P for your answers, finally. clearly, the extraction process has been stressful and painful. after a long and complex gestation, more painful than a breech birth and an extraction certainly more painful than my recent ripping out of 19 teeth ...!!!

UNRAVELLING THE ANSWERS.
as mentioned by another member, there is a need to read, carefully, what has been provided; a need to unravel the ?Johnspeak?.

Q/A1. forget the grub screw/cotter pin red herring as simply a smart, diversionary tactic. the clear, admitted reality is now that other, significant and previously unannounced changes have been made to these Arms (design, welding, material, spacers, ?o? rings, countersinking issues, et al). we have a different product; no longer, does the previous, extensive 3 years of track testing have validity. this fact is confirmed in one unbelievable line from Mr P ?.... yes using the first GB buyers to test the revised models is a great way to improve things ..? ... so much for the much flaunted, extended and extensive testing .. so much for the ?ready to go? trumpeting.

Q/A2. this response is a classic in avoidance, a brilliant one liner but alas, a non answer. what it does say, however, is ?... yes, Fulcrum engineers did REJECT the Arms as NOT suitable, in their view, for Road use....? Fulcrum are, of course, the firm presented to us as the largest, best and most experienced suspension engineers in Australia. surely then we must accept their word when they say ?NO THANKS? for road use. this, in turn, exposes the excuse proffered by UAS for the Fulcrum withdrawal .. that excuse made no sense at the time .. it now has no credibility at all.

Q/A3. this is the interesting area and one Ross may well wish to cover in greater depth than me. i have no doubt that Terry and Dave support their product as ordered by UAS and to the degree of testing directed by UAS. we have been advised of impeccable engineering and motor sport credentials of Bosjnak (as we were for Fulcrum..!!). the obvious worry is then, that someone in this fine firm was sufficiently concerned to express the considered view that these Arms, while suitable for Track use were not considered suitable for Road use. can it be a coincidence that the same opinion has been proffered by Fulcrum and from within Bosjnak ... strange happenings, indeed, momma (apologies to John Lennon ..) ... !!!

So, to all and sundry, finally, information which should have been fully and freely available to all Forum members some 4 months ago and ongoing throughout the GB has only now seen the light of day ... a sad indictment for a GB.

to wrap up, some observations and housekeeping .....

MEMBER ?ROSS?. this member has been accused, abused and rubbished in every possible way in sad, blatant attempts to discredit him. Ross did not go out seeking information. seemingly, it was freely and gratuitously given to him, via his motorsports connections, by a concerned individual involved in the manufacturing process. he did NOT go public with this information; rather, concerned and with responsibility he passed it to Forum Administration. only late in the thread, when inconsistencies and contradictions began to emerge, did Ross post anything at all.

significantly, and quite independently, my several enquiries led down a very similar track albeit the information of Ross being much more detailed than mine.

i do not know Ross .. i have not met him ... instead of being abused, it is my view that Ross should be given a Forum Medal for his major contribution in clearing up a very sad Forum experience.

MEMBER TEKTRADER. graham ... you may well be interested in a quote from an email i received during this marathon. the sender is a GB participant, well regarded on the Forum, a frequent technical contributor ( and to remove suggestions of prejudice, NOT from QLD ..!!).
? .... i would point out that my suspension arms are for my race car not for my road car. i would strongly discourage people from using THESE(my emphasis) or any other bearing type parts on road car suspension ...?

that to me is a very definite, telling, in house statement ...!!!

and a further quote (yours) from the thread ... ?... just the fact that any information on this product has left the workshop not through the correct channels would be enough for me to terminate any involvement with B and J ...? .... well, mate, JP wrapped up this firm as the best, as the new better than sliced bread find. whistleblowers, like it or not, do exist in all walks of life .. looks as if you might have to terminate your contract ...

UNCLE CHILI ... you write and present as if developments within the thread have somehow and magically held up production .. that, of course is just patently a nonsense ... an imagination matched only by the mind stretching excuses we have been fed over the past 4 months ( not the least being your favourite and that of your Brothers in Arms; that an incredible technological advance, the simple but mighty cotter pin, somehow delayed production for something like 4 months ... lol...!!!).

thanks to your ?flying fxxxxers? and the terrier that smelt some ?off? meat on the bone, the Forum now has the full, unexpurgated version. enjoy your Arms; engineering advice suggests that you WILL need to stay on track .

and to quote yourself ...? why do you expect UAS to be any different ..?? .. this is a Forum GB, one designed to bring in and to sell to 50 plus members through a known, reputable performance workshop ... in your own words, a supporter of all things zed. surely you are not suggesting that members should have essential product information with-held from them ..that members do not have the right to expect full, frank and open information .. ??? ... indeed,a most strange proposition for a GB on a very specialised, sharing Forum ..!!!



TO CONCLUDE ... may the Forum never again see such a sad and sorry GB performance.
... perhaps it is time to review the UAS GB Model .... ???
AMEN ..!!!

 

Baz, This isnt IN HOUSE. It is MY opinion

I stand by that statement. These arms for road use are subjected to exactly the same stresses that any other bearing style aftermarket arms is WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE TWISTING FORCES.

I beleive (but dont know for a fact) even UAS will be including a disclaimer that these arms are for track use only. In fact EVERY other aftermarket suspension arm on the market does exactly the same thing.

These GB arms are subjected to exactly the same stresses when people use a hodgpotch of front suspension arm parts as all the other arms out there.

1) these will not work or wear any better than all the other arms out there if the radius rod is not replaced with a rose jointed part.

2) The stock radius rod is not compatible with ANY bearing style upper arm as it allows the arm and bearings to be stressed back and forth as the radius rod moves. This is BAD and eventually it will fail.

3) In theory the lower arm should also be changed to a bearing style for the exact same reasons. It restricts radial movement from destroying upper arm bearings.

Use of these parts cant be properly controlled by ANY vendor even UAS.

This will be the reason why they CAN'T and I expect WONT be approved or recommended for road use. SAME AS ALL THE OTHER MANUFACTURERS DO.

This sort of disclaimer will fall on the same deaf ears that all the other suspension disclaimers from all the other manufacturers fall on.

IE: most users dont give a rats ass and will use them anyway road car or not. All we should be worried about is that these are manufactured to the highest standard possible, as opposed to the pile of steaming horse dung upper arms that most people buy, that are made in CHINA.

Dont think I can make my personal opinion any plainer than that.

I was speaking from the point of view as if I was UAS. Not as if I was a participant of the GB.

If there was an NDA in place between UAS and B&J the workshop could have their ass sued off because of the stupid actions of an employee who full of his own self importance leaks what he thinks is infomation " we all must have !! "

We have no idea if this guy is a total lunatic which after this is entirely possible

 

The standard upper arms have bearings

 

do they?

 

If Bosnak are telling UAS the above details, or if UAS already know them, then shouldn't they be repeating it in the GB thread?

 

You are so full of bullcrap that this post should have been titled "Disposing of sewage from an over fertilized mind".
How dare you insinuate that I am a part of some imaginary Brotherhood(another product of your malfunctioning mental processes)or that I at any time suggested(or entered into)that childish, pathetic drivel concerning 'Cotter/Cottle pins'.
That was entirely of your doing and in the minds of most GB participants, puerile nonsense.

It is abundantly clear that the Moderators of this forum have no way(or perhaps no desire)to shut you up.
I do not share that view.

You have driven the final nail into the coffin of the Armidale Zedfest in my opinion(whatever semblance of camaraderie that existed on this forum, is long dead).

I'll leave you to wallow in your imagined victory over a battle that never existed.
Incidentally, in your role as the Australian Ralph Nader, perhaps you should gird your loins for future campaigns against all the other aftermarket Adjustable Upper Control Arm manufactures/sellers, because NONE of these arms are street legal in this country(a fact obviously well known to Fulcrum and Bosnjak, and the sole reason they would advise 'Track Use Only').