UAS Pivoting Upper Control Arms GB Discussion thread

Discussion in 'Non Technical' started by black baz, Jul 29, 2009.

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  1. black baz

    black baz black 'n blue Bazemy

    EDIT:

    This thread has been created to allow discussion on the product and process without cluttering the main group buy thread.
    All forum members are welcome to Post here, and UAS / Rob260 will endeavour to answer your questions here.


    mr penlington ..... if you were sufficiently competent to read your own UAS g/b threads, it would take little to see that i am a participant in this group buy ......

    you will now, indeed, get my response to your "why do you not like me ... dummy spit" email .. as i implied to you earlier, rude and ignorant is only part of your problems ....

    you may now like to explain why were participants of this g/b NOT advised of the expected delay until they raised the delay issue ... AND, more importantly why were participants not advised of design changes ..again, this only emerged after participant inquiry ...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2009
    black baz, Jul 29, 2009
    #1
  2. black baz

    black baz black 'n blue Bazemy

    my position on this is simple, straightfoward and no different than normal practice with any group buy. full, frank and open communication is an essential of any g/b, perhaps more so with some 33 participants and a g/b value in excess of $13.000.

    this g/b was launched after some 2 years of regular "infomercials" and 3 years testing as a "world first" (quote: 2 versions on our race car for 3 years, all still goes ... and ... also tested on a big HP road/track R32 gtr for 2 years ..).

    Fulcrum were the nominated manufacturer as the biggest suspension shop in Australia ... and has been used by UAS for previous g/b products.

    on 29 may, we were told that the time frame was another 6 weeks ..that is, 2 weeks into production. nothing was stated about performance by Fulcrum nor improvements.

    on 17 july, following query, we were told that the units were in production but with some unspecified improvements.

    on 29 july, some 2 weeks beyond due completion date, we are advised of the Fulcrum collapse and the new manufacturer who is "... looking at using a cotter pin or some other system" as an improvement.

    it seems to me then, that a number of legitimate questions remain unanswered.

    1. why did Fulcrum fall over?? .. was the unit beyond their capacity to manufacture ..??? .."taking too long" is hardly sufficient in this regard.

    2. can a unit be in production when the manufacturer is still looking at at an improvement ".. using a cotter pin or some other system. this is, perhaps, a little too technical for my comprehension.

    3. what degree/form of testing will be applied to the new, improved unit ..??

    4. given the enormous and strenuous amount of road/track testing, why was it felt that a simple "cotter pin or some other system would be an improvement (yes, we technically challenged find it difficult to comprehend how a cotter pin becomes a feat of technical ingenuity or an element of ongoing tecnical, research and development.

    5.what is now the scheduled completion date of this group buy ...???
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2009
    black baz, Jul 31, 2009
    #2
  3. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    Jesus Baz I would have thought you were the first to appreciate the move to someone who will get the job done??? Would you prefer for these to be in production or to still be waiting for someone who has quoted the job and indicated a timeframe that has proven to be unreliable.

    Why did it take them so long? Because our small order is not a priority.

    Same reason other group buys invovling custom or boutique products often run late. This is not limited to UAS either.

    Reality is many of these large manufacturers deal with orders in the hundreds if not thousands, and while they may have the best of intentions economic viability is the ultimate currency. In this regard I believe John has done the right thing in finding a more suitable manufacturer at considerable expense to his business.

    Again my PM box is empty should you wish to discuss any legitimate concerns. I don't do bullshit as you and the rest of the forum should know by now.
     
    rob260, Jul 31, 2009
    #3
  4. black baz

    black baz black 'n blue Bazemy

    thanks for that, rob ..... i do appreciate what may be involved .....

    however, the manufacturing issue was never passed to participants ... Fulcrum was highlighted in your launch post as the "ants pants" .. strange that they were selected and then did not want the job ...????

    ... and my 5 points remain unanswered ...
     
    black baz, Jul 31, 2009
    #4
  5. angrybear

    angrybear Moderator

    Well answer this one then

     
    angrybear, Jul 31, 2009
    #5
  6. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    Not that they don't want the job, they were heavily involved with development of the original product. I'm sure they would happily do it when they have the time to spend on a small order, but the past two months have shown that that may not coincide with a timeframe that suits JP and forum members.

    Will do my best with your questions

    See above


    Yes as more to do than manufacture the joining mechanism. Likewise I am not an engineer but found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotter_pin and this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grub_screw. As I understand it the cotter pin is less likely to come loose. Note that during the years of testing of slot car and road going GTR this was never an issue, however if the option is there to improve then it will still be a better product.

    Also knowing something of Bosnjack's pedigree as a racer and engineer I personally trust his judgement. I also know how much John has invested in this product and his car and he would not be getting someone half arsed to do it. Bosnjack's website isn't online yet, but a quick google search turned up some good reviews http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=...&ct=result&cd=1&q=bosnjak+engineering&spell=1.

    Remember it is UAS who have guaranteed the warranty as well, and will be responsible for servicing any issues relating to mechanical defect. This is in print on forum for all to see. No other design of arm offers warranty nor do any other suppliers.

    Can't answer that as I don't know, but really testing on a fastening mechanism of this kind is somewhat superfluous. It does not affect the function of the arm.

    As above, grub screw was not a problem and the product could be sold with that system with no probs. However if it could be better then that is certainly the preferred option.

    Can't answer that because I don't know. I will however do my best to find out.
     
    rob260, Jul 31, 2009
    #6
  7. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    As mentioned throghout this thread and in your other, THIRD PARTY MANUFACTURING ISSUE.

    John/UAS have sourced an alternative at additional cost to them. What more do you want???
     
    rob260, Jul 31, 2009
    #7
  8. angrybear

    angrybear Moderator

    "I like this product, I want to buy it. Anyone want to join with me and see if we can get a good price"

    Thats a Group Buy

    "You now have this not to be missed opportunity to join in a Group Buy of this fantastic product that has been tested for years, used in the Space Shuttle, blessed by the Pope, patented by NASA, fits perfectly, easy to install, etc, etc"

    That is advertising, even inducement. Surely you can tell the difference?

    If any of those GBs had been posted under the name Unique Zed in FSBB, I would not have had a single comment - nor a single surprise if it didn't turn out quite as rosy as promised.
     
    angrybear, Jul 31, 2009
    #8
  9. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    Is this really relevant to the thread?

    Of course I believe in the product or I would not buy it.

    Of course the group buy post is going to be positive, otherwise nobody would participate and I would not get my discount cheap arms (if at all).

    To further illustrate my point, see below my blurb for BDE cam gears. Do you object to my group buying his products? The seven others who participated did not.

    Here's one from pexzed for another product. Likewise fairly positive.

    Another one from Caz regarding swaybars (and posted in the Group Buy section :eek:), again positive

    And from member ZedHed regarding the "Best Motor Oil in the World"...

    And from smithys place regarding staino door sills (which I bought from Caz and are bloody awesome).

    Anyways that's all I can be bothered finding. Oddly enough most people are keen on the products they're organising Group Buys for!!




    All of this has been addressed in your Forum Discussion thread. PM a mod if you think I am doing the wrong thing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2009
    rob260, Jul 31, 2009
    #9
  10. black baz

    black baz black 'n blue Bazemy

    re the tektrader deleted post of 31 july (10:24) ... and rob260 at 10:08 ......

    the UNIQUE ZED post of 29 july specifically mentioned "cotter pin" .. not "cottle pin" ..???

    so what do we have now ... ???
     
    black baz, Jul 31, 2009
    #10
  11. black baz

    black baz black 'n blue Bazemy

    no, joe ...not at all ...!!!! .. a most genuine and reasonable question ...

    tektrader's post (self deleted) went into specific detail as to what a "cottle" pin was ... very much different to a cotter pin ...

    perhaps you might like to recant for the second time in this thread ... ????

    ..
     
    black baz, Jul 31, 2009
    #11
  12. black baz

    black baz black 'n blue Bazemy

    if you have nothing to contribute to this thread then might i suggest it is you who should "stop" ... two posts and two strikes has you on the margin ...

    rob answered my legitimate query that was instigating absolutely nothing (other than your obvious paranoia) and i am happy with his reponse .. your non contributions do not assist a thread that rob has done his best to get back on track ....
     
    black baz, Jul 31, 2009
    #12
  13. DinoZ

    DinoZ Talks sh#t for a living.

    Rob, I don't think it is unfair to be asking for a completion date on this project given the length of time they have been in manufacture. Look forward to you posting a date that is well before Xmas (this year).
     
    DinoZ, Oct 19, 2009
    #13
  14. henpecked

    henpecked very small member

    Look Rob, I've been patient, and I know the product is worth waiting for, and I'm quite happy to continue waiting. but it seems the product is only part of what you can get in a group buy, and I'm, clearly not getting my money's worth.

    I've continually missed out on having a whine and grumble while lots'a others have been able to get in a have a red hot go at cleaning up their totally effluent-swamped livers, by giving a huge serve to you and JP and anyone else that got in the way of their stray drive-past gunfire, and its just not fair that you are now NOT prepared to give a specific time, so that I can at least know when I can log in to give you a thoroughly undeserved spray like every other self important time-waster.

    I hope you will take your responsibilities as a volunteer organiser seriously for once and ensure that we can get a really decent, strident and totally pointless keyboard war going, that will enable people like me,( who don't actually have a life), to be come consumed in the minut'e of a flame war. Otherwise I may have to SERIOUSLY reconsider withdrawing my support for further group buys ( Cue Soundtrack: faint cheering in the background)


    EDIT :
    YES !!!! Just saw your post re black zinc, So can I complain about the zinc colour ? would that be OK ?, if you had asked I would have wanted a paisley colour, so can I complain about that , please, I'd really like to be able to be the first to complain about something ... - so why no paisley ?? well? Black is SOOO last year
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009
    henpecked, Oct 27, 2009
    #14
    hpcoolahan and Cam like this.
  15. hpcoolahan

    hpcoolahan back to boost ...yay

    Im Sorry , but this is what turns me off Group buys.
    Was in need of some fronts but.........

    Cheers
    Patrick
     
    hpcoolahan, Oct 27, 2009
    #15
  16. beaver

    beaver southern zeds

    UAS Pivoting Front Camber Arms READY TO GO

    29/4/09 ...................................................27/10/09 and still going.
     
    beaver, Oct 27, 2009
    #16
  17. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    5/8/2009 your deposit onsold and your money refunded and yet you are still complaining?
     
    rob260, Oct 27, 2009
    #17
  18. black baz

    black baz black 'n blue Bazemy

    ...spot on, beav ... and see how your simple observation is immediately reacted to as a complaint .... ????

    ... from a couple of phone calls i made before withdrawing, it will be most interesting to see the make up of these arms when they finally emerge ...

    ... are you bushed when you lose your bearings .... ???
     
    black baz, Oct 27, 2009
    #18
  19. henpecked

    henpecked very small member

    NOT Fair !!

    HEY !!! ROB !!! I've complained !! I've whinged like a little girl, Just what sort of ignorant piss-ant attention-seeking pointless dysfunctional behaviours do I have to do around here to get some undeserved attention ???

    Why are you destroying my dreams of becoming officially recognised as an unimportant chronic forum complainer by paying attention to these people ahead of me !!

    - WELL ??? -

    I finally get in a decent complaint - ( hey if not paisley zinc how about Plaid ? ), and instead of getting some attention and perhaps a little flame war going - all I get in response to my first post is THANKS ??

    and instead of joining in on my bandwagon and getting stuck into you, there are responsible forum members and group buy participants members posting comments of SUPPORT for you !!

    WTF ????

    Thats such BS , its not as if you have ever helped most of us out with tech advice, group buys, loaned us spare parts, helped out on tech days or stuff like THAT ------ well ? ------ have you ?? !! yeah - i thougt so just show th....- oh, what ? err , what's that Mods,...... emm, .......ok, .........yes, ......thats right ,..... he has done all that .. BUGGER ----- -- umm,errr, ----------well .. um I have to go anyway its time for my meds ... but .. ahh $#!T ... never you mind then

    Plaid, I want Plaid !!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2009
    henpecked, Oct 28, 2009
    #19
  20. CHILI

    CHILI Indestructable Target

    Hey HennyPenny, Why don't you just shut up?
    I am sick and tired of your constant whinging and whining in this thread(und Der Finger-pokin und Der naimun callin).
    You just haven't been the same since one of your offspring tumbled off that wall(and got trampled by a hoard of Military equine enthusiasts).[​IMG][​IMG]
     
    CHILI, Oct 28, 2009
    #20
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