method, you seem to know alot of people breaking shit in theyre engine and using them to justify why the stock ones are shite.. who are these people.. whos bending rods?? what sort of power were they making, what mods did they have.. were they the sort of person to push stock turbos to 20psi and super heat the air before running the cas 10 degrees advanced to make this extra power? all on stock intercoolers?
Just because you use the forum doesn't mean that every one who owns a Z32 does. I have come across more people who don't use the forum with Z32's than people who DO use it at regular meets etc. One of the guys who bent a stock rod is actually on this forum. He was running a 3" zorst, 13psi boost, pod and a hks fcon, not sure if he had a few more mods but that was about it. His tune was safe and he had the a/f to prove it along with all the other details from the shop who tuned it. One night, his engine decided to start making funny sounds, stripped it down and his rod was bent. Another one had a N/A, he had most of the mods others have here on their N/A's and bent a rod one night at the drags. There is also another person who is a friend of mine and he has spent in excess of $30k on his engine alone. Before this happened, he too bent a rod and killed some other stuff with only 1 bar of boost when he was revving the shit out of the engine. For the hell of it, there is a Z which runs 8's and he is a friend of someone who had their car at the auto salon it is a green one with lambo doors and he was telling me the other night about this. Don't ask me about the exact details because I do not know, but I don't see why someone who has spent so much time and money on their car (2 years to just do the cosmetic stuff) would bullshit about it. The first thing I ever learned about using forums/internet for info is that you can't believe everything you read, the second thing which I didn't think many of us had to even learn was that just because there is a 300zx community, it doesn't mean that there aren't hard core Z enthusiasts who don't use the forum. What are you trying to get at? Tektrader can back up what I say by trying to use the net to backup research, there is so many different answers but if you like to believe everything you read then build your 400rwkw cars using 'nissan specs only' like what the 'experts' on tt.net say. You will probably find that if you try and do that, you will kill your engine within the first minute of firing it up.
That must mean that John from UAS had a poor tune, because his car isn't making anything close to what wagzs car made. Also, if we can be assured that the stock rods are so reliable, why did you change them? why did I change them? why did chewy get aftermarkets? why is UAS not going to re-use stock rods? the list goes on. Why do most upgrade? it must be because we all know our tunes are going to be shit? It must be, because like you said, it is all in the tune. I didn't upgrade because of that, that is for sure.
As I said, its detonation that kills the components, not the HP its making. You can decide what that means about the tune. Again, as I already said, people choose to upgrade for an extra margin of safety though when detonation occurs thats no guarantee. Also the lighter weight of rotating assembly is a big consideration. Take my engine for example. Detonation enough to kill 3 pistons and crack inconel yet my rods made it ok. Something will always give though. Thats not justification that stock isnt strong enough however, just that other rods can be stronger and achieve the same strength with a lighter weight. Because my pistons broke, is this justifaction that all forged pistons are now not good enough? Can I claim that the maximum a forged piston will take is 500 rwhp? Or do you just accept the fact that even a small amount of detonation will break things? Perhaps you can explain where you think the design fault is on the stock rods. Given that it is forged and a very heavy rod, why cant it be good enough for a high HP application?
Detonation would be due to the tuning unless something goes wrong. I never said forged parts are going to last forever, a night at calder park will back up my claim on forged parts failing when pushed to the limit, althought I wouldn't go as far as saying that all of the engines fail due to 'detonation' alone. JP's car must have been detonating for him to bend his rods then or was his tune just poor? The engine doesn't have to detonate for a component to fail as you are saying. If something has been tested to 800hp, does this mean that after 800hp the engine will detonate and destroy the component? What does their power rating measure? I assumed that after 800hp you would be stressing the component to much and it would most likely be unreliable after that point. I do know that most of those ratings are conservative, but in no way would a part last when hit with a lot more power than what it is rated at even if the engine didn't detonate. None of us know what the stock components are rated at. As for the stock rods, their surface finish is extremely poor if you compare them to a quality aftermarket rod. You don't need glasses to see that. Along with wanting to rev hard, they aren't an ideal weight. Your engine failed because of a poor tune, but you can't say that everyones engines fail due to the 'tune'. Regardless of how good the tune is, you can't control the stress points of any components. There could be a split second that for whatever reason oil doesn't pump where it is suppose to and sieze something up, that has nothing to do with the tune. In no way am I saying 'ditch the stock rods, aftermarket are the only way to go' but when you have people wanting 300-400+rwkw reliably who drive their cars hard, if you are spending that money, what is an extra $1000, honestly? For that extra piece of mind it is worth it. It is better to do it before hand, than stick with stock, break something and then come back and say "I should have bought aftermarket xxxx while the engine was apart". Or, we could all just swain coat our stock pistons and expect them to be reliable up to 700+rwhp because wagz has them and they work. Clearly not the case, but by all means, if this is what you want to do, then do it because at the end of the day it doesn't matter what you are told or have read it is your decision to make. Why spend so much money and not do the job properly? I mean, Ti internals are going to another level, but at least measure twice and cut once. Unless you are like minivan and are trying to prove something by blowing up an engine and then doing it all over again. I don't know about anyone else but it isn't the money which annoys me in the rebuild, that is really meaningless but the time you waste researching/buying/stuffing around is what bugs me the most. If only exams didn't exist.
I think your missing the point. No ones arguing that after market isnt a good idea, for the weight saving alone plus they should be stronger. However your saying that stock rods arent up to the task because John broke one. Thats incorrect and not based on anything factual that I can see. There is no way to prove it but I would guess he would of broken an aftermarket rod if he was running them at that point as the likelyhood is something failed other than pure mechanical stress of the rod but thats just guessing. If anyone has any actual proof that the rods are somehow far weaker then Im happy to see it. Aside from yourself I dont know anyone or have read of anyone breaking a stock rod from purely too much horsepower.
lol well if we just look at the facts... stock rods= forged. everyone is saying u cant believe what you hear, and your cant pick specific examples, which rules out every single example thats been said in this entire post. so at the end of the day, the stock rods are still forged, im quiet content with settleing on that, forged rods have problems also, its not like i got supermans wang under my piston or anything, its just some sturdy metal which will have a longer life duration/punishment taking ability then a unforged rod. my 2c
1. if you know of lots of zed knowledge outside the forum.. get em on here 2. where can i buy this supermans wang.. i wanna make sure that when i have a problem.. the rod shoots out the side of the block in one peice 3. wagz must be a religeous man 4. detonation is caused by a poor tune, not sure why you said johns was caused by detonation or was it a poor tune 5. A/F ratios is not a measure of a good tune.. if his trying to squeeze every last HP out of his engine his timing maps would be on the brink of detonation.. all it takes is one faulty seonsor, change in the temp or a bad mix of fuel to make rod go bye bye, anyway.. this lil discussion was nice.. oh and by the way, this guy i know.. his running 15 billion HP in his engine on stock internals.. its fully sik.. im sticking with stock rods.. ive spent like 3 grand upgrading my engine.. but i havent cracked her open.. saving myself 5 grand (plus 2 more for rods and pistons) you seriously think my engine will blow up? im betting a headgasket or something will go coz its so old.. not a rod through the block. (even though that would be cool)
3.5L now you're talking! so you get it bored and the cheap stroker kit~ hehe but what would you call it? a 300zx? a 350zx? hehe but surely the decrease in lag caused by the extra air flow would be HOT
You cant have my wang I need it Very interesting build with lots of $$$ invested. He knew what he was doing. I have a magazine article I can email you if your interested. Reading comprehension > you. I said detonation kills components and what that meant about Johns tune was up to people to decide for themselves. Yep You must of heard of my commodore. I sold it though for a magna. However that is probably close as it has some stickers. I reckon thats a very smart idea.
Guys it seems like we are talking cross purposes here. 1) We all agree AM forged parts are better than stock. 2) We all agree detonation if it occurs is gonna root ANY engine fully forged or not. What the variable here is that people have different needs for the car they build. Minivan is a bit like me a major DIY. I tend to like to prove convention wrong and as I am a tight arse I like to spend a little as possible. Nathan And Paul are both going all out which is fine too. They should be able to run more boost than me or Minivan. Both Paul and Nathan have GT28RS so they can handle well over 25 PSI if they need to. I have GT28R's and they dont work too well over 20 PSI anyway. So no point pushing them. I am trying to reduce the resistance to air flow through the plenum, heads and manifold so I can max out the turbo. There would be no point boosting beyond 18 PSI as you wont get more power. Hopefully this means I can run the stock internals safely given a good tune and fuel. Everyone has differing needs and wallets. IMHO buying GT28RS and expecting to run them at 26 PSI on a stock engine is a recipe for disaster.
sorry, I didn't think I had to state the OBVIOUS! A 'japanese import', a 'rice car', a 'rice burner' etc.
It is a debate that could go on for a long time. Point is, for a street car, bigger bore is better bang for buck. Nathans torque curve will be one to look out for as he has gone 80thou over?? Can you confirm the new piston size you are using Nath? It isn't just a matter of boring out the block when you go larger, you have to play with the combustion chamber also if you want things to work efficiently. One reason why I ditched the GReddy metal head gaskets was because there is a huge void around the combustion chambers, so when the head is torqued down onto the block, you have about 2cm of empty space inbetween the bore and the combustion chamber. It looks like it would just build up with carbon and possibly allow for more hot spots so I am going to use the OEM ones which came with the gasket kit.
Listen UP You know what guys. This post was just a FYI and *DREAM* to some. But to go on like little bitches about AM this and FM that.. Far Canal!!!!!.... I am so tempted to do this just to shut some people up... So what if a stroker is a shit idea to some a great idea to others?? So what if cottom ball pistons and earbud rods are better than titanium forged butt crack, needle dick rings and all the other BS that comes along with it.. You guys need to go buy a cubby house and have a tea party SERIOUSLY!!!!/// There has been alot of talk about what everyone knows and how everyone else is wrong... Well guess what WHO GIVES A SHIT!!!.. There is no merit in what you guys are doing or what you want to achieve.. I am HONESTLY happy for you all. WHY? Because you own a ZED and ZEDS are beautiful. BUT Fuck your attitudes stink.. I am not saying i have to like it. i really couldn't give a shit. but all you guys needed to say was "i am better" no "i am better". Stroker kits rule and thats it... OH AND HOW LONG IS THIS THREAD!!!!!! Tezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzza!
haha, oh and that detonation comment wasnt for you.. it was for method.. he said it must have been a bad tune or it was detonating.. and id love that article please delcarlo@iinet.net.au
i still think 3.5L will be awesome but i don't know much about this stuff, so if there's unforeseen consequences then i wouldn't know without someone enlightening me i'm guessing lower revs due to the stroking, right? but then you've got the good old 350Z engine with TT combo that riceboys dream of... hehe but the low revs... which is quite the opposite to intuition, where stroking the girl usually makes her rev harder... haha
It seems as though anyone here currently doing a serious rebuild who makes a post, gets attacked or something like that. I was told this would happen when I started my build and sometimes wonder why I even bother sharing info on here. No one is right or wrong, none of us here know anything even close to the extreme technical side of how the internals work (maybe a few do, but I haven't seen anyone make posts about it), but it is a public forum, no one forces you to use it or to read threads. Minivan seems to try to prove a point after I make a post, is it just because he isn't doing what I, or others are doing??? When I started posting up what I was doing to my engine, I somehow managed to get PM's accusing me of being a drug dealer (lmao), saying the forum was better before I came here (rofl - mind you, that was from a member who had only been a member for 4 months so go figure?) and many other abusive pm's from people who appear to have an IQ of something around the 20 mark.. I have no problem with that, but if you don't have something constructive to say, don't say it. Reading back on this temp forum shows that it happens, reading back on the old forum shows that it happens with Nath, Chewy etc. The same thing happened with the ECU debate, it is FACT - aftermarket ECU's can do a lot more than stock, it is your decision to choose what you want to go with but if you DON'T want to go aftermarket, don't try to run down aftermarket ECU's just because you will not have one, likewise with all the other internal components and virtually everything else to do with the car. Someone once told me to look at the majority of people who talk their knowledge up about the car and make these comments and then to look at how much work they have actually ever done to an engine or rather, how much they have paid someone to do the work to their engine. If you can't work out what I am talking about don't bother trying. My 2c. P.S Stroker kits DO rule!
The post before that said something along the lines of: "what they can't handle is detonation" "it is ALL in the tune" If you put two and two together, you will know why I sarcastically made that comment.
