I know what shotpeening is, but I thought That is the only thing done and they are not a true forged item. They certainly don't look well finished. Also, twice the size? My crower rods look much smaller, neater and firmer than the stock rods. What rods are twice the size/weight of stock?
Scump - there were 2 lancers at jambouree this year with 1000HP I dont think any a/m rods are actually bigger than the stock rod - if they were twice the size they'd fowl on the bores wouldnt they? Method is right, a stroked engine built right with those components will out perform a standard bore one and yes there are better mods you can do for your money - but this is about having the best possible configuration - just because you cant afford it doesnt mean it's shit
I think you guys are missing the point. The stroker kit will make the engine a more oversquare design. This will enhance low end torque enormously. The pistons will move through the bore at a faster speed than stock and therefore have higher enertia (translates into torque) this means that the weight reduction of the parts is essential or the engine will not rev like it is supposed to. Bigger bore solutions are probably more realistic, Shame there is only enough meat in the block to go to 3.2 litres MAX. 1000hp cars like the Lancer talked about above are probably not streetable designs. Anything can give HUGE power on a dyno given enough boost and big enough turbos. But who would want to drive one of them?? It would be bloody awful to drive with that much lag it is a joke. Huge turbos + small engine capacity = LAGGGGGGGGGG Lots of power at 6500 revs but. No torque under that though.
Exactly, I know someone with a 600+hp Lancer and it doesn't start moving until about 5000rpm. It is now street legal and fully engineered after being hit with a brown sticker for almost 2 years I believe. Same can be said with supras, soarers etc, if you stick on a monster single turbo, 500rwhp is easy, but how easily it is driven and how well it makes that power is another story unless it has been built to spec. I am not saying that stroker kit is a piece of shit, I am just saying, you would have to be kind of silly to spend that sort of money on a 'street registered 300zx'. I am sure a lot of people here have spent more than what that kit costs on their engines, I know I have spent more than that but I wouldn't go to those extremes for a street car, and if I did, it would be on some old school V8, not a V6 import. My car will be taken to the track, hence the brake upgrade and other little things, but it will still also be my daily driver.
to some people an import such as a 300zx or skyline or even a supra is a better car than a old camaro,vette or mustang...............i personally would not "waste my time" on a american car like that and would prefer to spend the money on my zed,regardless.... that doesnt mean that i dont appreciate those cars it simply means that i would prefer a jap car over an american one...........if poeple want to spend 11k making their zed all it can be then who are we to say its the wrong thing to do.........i would consider it if i had a lazy 11k sitting around but then when does that happen in the real world..lol
but for the application the kit is made for there is still no substitute for cubes. I know people who have spent < $20k on their V8's in street trim, and run 10s or low 11s with ease. If you are going stroker, you obviously want either a damn quick track-only car (which only UAS on this forum seem to have) or a extremely quick drag car. In reality, if you want a 10 second car, you shouldn't buy a Z32. Although I would like to think that everyone here bought their Z's because they love the car, not just for the two reasons of reasonable handling and good performance, but everything else that comes with it. I know what you mean about not loving imports more than muscle cars, but there are some people who 'love' hyundai excels for example, but regardless of how much someone could love them, spending $5k on a paint job, $2k on a body kit, and another $10k to do up / transplant the engine in one, is kind of lame in my mind. Each to their own obviously.
dude i never said lancers cant get powerful... evo is the most powerful 4 cyl car around for crying out loud!!! but i have NEVER seen a Rear Wheel Drive lancer, hence why i said impossible to get 700hp at the rear wheels.... lancer=fwd/awd. iono if evos awd sytem can be changed to 100% rear 0% front. i think everyone agrees that the fully forged jun internals will take anything u can throw at them, and .2cc of displacement is a performance boost, no matter how small it is. and later on down the track its nice to have that lil bit extra, just like porting and polishing your head.
yep that is true but then again I don't know of anyone here or on tt.net (who actually achieved an end result - there was a guy talking about 3.4L or something but I don't think it stopped half way) who has set up and run a stroked VG30DETT to see real world differences. I guess one day someone will try it out and prove a point, either big or small.
never said anything about em being heavier thankyou ok, for one.. everywhere you read says nissan used forged rods since the l24.. no idea who told you shot peening theyre full of shit.. google it.. oh, and for the record.. crank and rods are shot peened aswell as forged. which is brilliant.. (shot peening relieves surface stress from machining the forged blank) what sport compact have to say largeer better designed rods.. actually lighter too
thanks for the links, although those rods don't look twice the size to me. The only way a rod could be 'twice the size' and lighter would be if it was made from Ti. They actually look about the same size in that pic when you scale the two of them up. Although the rods may be strong enough for moderate mods, they aren't strong enough when pushing high boost + large HP. I think the forging process you talk of and material they are made from is only used to hold up to the standards specs and slightly more much like the rest of the engines components in virtually every car, i.e. you can always get better. I know for a fact that toyota rods are said to be 'forged' but apparently they are no where near as well designed as some aftermarket rods available which can be bought at a cheap price. The forging marks left on the crank are a very shonky finish if you ask me. I know nissan shot peened the crank and rods, but they could have at least grinded off the forge / dag marks before doing it. Each one is a potential problem. I am not a fan of the bolted on counterweight either. I am also getting my crank tested to see if it has been nitrided, hopefully it will clear up the confusion of the crank 'being nitrited from the factory' as the crank I have has never been ground.
You'd be mad to pay that I heard somewhere that JUN simply get these made by crower to their specs. If you contact crower directly you can get them to make you a set at whatever specs you like. Forged crank, titanium rods, pistons for half that cost. I was || this close to getting a set but wasnt keen on the 10 week wait, plus uncertainty of what bore/stroke would fit the best. Also I should add that 3.2L can be close to gained with just boring. I would only recommend a kit like this if you were really serious and going to go to 3.5L
google also came up with "The vg30dett comes with forged rods and pistons." Everyone knows the pistons aren't forged. As for the rods, that is cleared up as most say they are 'forged' and then go on to say 'but better forged material is available and recommended' which is stating the obvious. Either way, I have seen stock rods bent, from 3 different Z's who weren't pushing anywhere near 400+rwkw. This alone was enough to convince me to go aftermarket for piece of mind. Sure, aftermarket can bend but it is less likely. Maybe the three people I know who bent them just had unlucky rods? (couldn't edit once my browser closed?)
yeah ive seen others.. best i could do at short notice.. you can see where the weight saving is at the base of the rod.. the nissan one is big and chunky where it doesnt need to be.. the rod is alot wider in the middle section where they break. ive seen anoter pic where they were talking about after market rods and the nissan ones, and the article goes on to say although the nissan ones are forged theyre quite small compared to most after market (in the h or i beam section.. cant remember which way is which) and the nissan rods in the factory bottom ends are closer to that of most manufacturers racing team rods john at UAS bent his stock rods at 456 rwKw.. i aint going close to that.. so stock rods will be fine.. forged pistons would be my first move.. but ill worry about that later. when i blow up this one besides.. this is not the point of this thread.. the point is that 10 grand for a small increase in displacement is a waste of money, has anyone seen a broken crank in a vg30dett (serious question)? forged rods and pistons is nowhere near that price, and the minute extra stroke wont get you very far
Stock rods have handled a lot more power than that. WAGZ was making nearly 750rwhp with no issues on stock rods and I believe stock pistons with a swain coating. Its all in the tune.
agree but how many wagz are their on tt.net He is probably the only one who hasn't had problems out of how many?? I could assure you that if 20 people here used stock rods and pistons and pushed over 700hp, maybe 1 out of the 20 wouldn't have problems. When you look back through the years, nearly everyone with high HP engines on tt.net had problems from day 1 of their rebuilds (the big hp cars). It is not smart to always refer to wagz, UAS etc. If the ratio of people with that sort of power/reliability was better, then it would be ok to refer to them, but clearly it isn't, searching on tt.net, hours of reading there will prove it. Also, I wouldn't refer to a stroker kit as a 'small amount of displacement' the idea behind it is much more than just the extra displacement you get. I would refer to over-boring alone as a 'small amount of displacement' not altering the stroke etc. As for the cranks breaking? I haven't seen one, but that isn't the point of the JUN crank, it is just a bonus that it is so strong. I have seen a counterweight come off and that was not a nice sight. I remember UAS saying the girdle is the weakest point, yet I have never seen one of them break. You can actually get your crank altered at many places, but I don't know of anyone who has done this. It would probably be better to just get a custom one made from crower or something. Only time will tell.
Correction...the lotus esprit s4s 2.2L turbo was the most powerful factory 4 cylinder. 224kw, 395nm, 1300kg pick up a good one for $50-60K
He is the only one I know that has kept stock components on a high hp rebuild. Everyone else upgrades their internals when shooting over 600 rwhp so you cant get too many examples. I dont see your reasoning that if one can do it that others cant. There is no reason the stock rods cant take the stress of high HP. What they cant take is detonation at that level, but then neither can many other components really.
