Well yes it does work like hes saying. Hes grasped it perfectly. AND, what you are saying is right as well... with conditions! However, it matters not that its in park, D for drag or R for race. Whether the car is hot, cold or indifferent see because hes looking at the ecu data live. The 15 degree figure is a figure stated for those who DONT have the live ecu data handy. In which case, the temp has to be this, the rpm that, the throttle off, gearshift in neutral and possibly your dressed to the left... then yes, 15 degrees is a hard and fast figure. BUT, the ecu data is the ecu data and WHATEVER reading is in that data window, regardless of running conditions, should agree with what you get with a strobe and the marks KK? So its perfectly acceptable to set the timing with a light while bashing the limiter if you like, in gear, out of gear clutch in or out or with a woody. The data window on the ecu interrogator of your choice is the knowledge here. E
lol, was waiting for your response Sure, but outside this locked 15degree 'mode' that the ecu enters the timing is not so static and is not going to be so simple to set correctly. Regardless, with the engine at the conditions where it should enter the 15degree timing mode, it doesn't, then something else is still wrong.
As he stated, he is running a SAW kit. Due to the aftermarket ATCU, it no longer sends the P/N signal to the ECU to bring the timing back to 15. In the case of my SAW fitted TT, my base timing shown by the ECU is 25 degrees, no matter what position the selector is in. Therefore when I check my timing with a light, I have to make sure it reads the same as the ECU data. Now, because he is running an NA, and the NA runs a different model auto box to the TT, it could be that the timing is advanced to 20 degrees when the ECU isn't receiving a P or N state. Therefore, due to him running a SAW, this could be why his ECU is showing 20 degrees instead of 15. Now, if anyone who has an auto NA with ECUTalk and standard ATCU, maybe able to verify that when shifting from Park to Drive, the ECU timing changes from 15 to 20 degrees. This will then confirm the above and his ECU will always show 20 degrees base timing, due to the SAW kit.
Yep, back at post#20 I have noticed that with my stock NoTurbo. I'd go out and check that again if only my new improved model BTconsult would courier itself to me. :
I have an Auto! I couldn't find the thread from here but it was known by alot if members that the autos sit on 20-25degs in park. Which mine is 15 on start up (regardless of temp) 25 on cold start and idle, then once at temp it's at 20. Seems to know what it's doing I have absolutely exhausted all possibilities to get any other readings than stated above.... The only things in my bay that are original 25 year old parts are the internals (which I compression tested at 175psi across all cyls)...oh and I suppose the alternator, ps pump and ac..., what else can I possibly do to get that so called magic 15?? Even though autos aren't supposed to read 15(?). Ignorance can be bliss but I don't believe I'm being ignorant... I've made sure everything is where it should be and reading what it should.
Actually this is an interesting article David pm'd me > http://www.twinturbo.net/nissan/300...cations-to-Enhance-Low-Speed-Drivability.html Shows some stock numbers... But also talks about the harsh transition from 15 to 30 something! I guess for me I have a nice smooth transition already being at 20
Yep, so if this can be confirmed by someone for the NA auto would help. 8300zx9, autos do not sit on 20-25degrees in Park. That's the whole point. All Z32's sit on 15degrees in Park/Neutral when fully warmed up. The only reason an auto ecu will sit on 25degrees is if there is a problem with the Park/Neutral switch. Easy to test. You have ecutalk. Once fully warmed up and the timing has settled, in your case to 20 degrees, does it change in ecutalk if you change from Park to Drive?
It won't. He has a saw. Saw does not pass the park neutral signal back to the ECU, so the timing will always be 20 degrees.
Doesn't really apply to auto's though, as auto's don't drop back to 15 degrees while in Drive, they drop back to 25degrees (or possibly 20degrees for NA).
Any reference to setting base ignition timing when engine is warm and in park or neutral is to let you know what to look for if you don't have a diagnostic tool, nothing else. As mentioned plenty of times now, you can set the base timing to whatever the diagnostic display reads but its a lot safer to do it at normal operating temp. Reason being, if you look at the ECU ignition timing and it is say 20BTDC but coolant temp is 60, as the temperature rises the timing will gradually retard as the temp rises which just moves the goal posts.
Look at Factory Service manual. Note this page online FSM. To simplify what other have been saying if the ECU needs to advance the timing say 5 degrees then the ECU will advance the timing by 5 degrees from whatever the Initial timing is set to. So the base (Initial or the timing before the ECU advance or retards) is assumed by the ECU. It does not know what the actual physical timing is. It is assumed by the ECU that the base timing is set to 15 Deg BTDC. Once this is set then the ECU will advance or retard according to its programming taking into account many variables. Set the base timing incorrectly and the ECU will assume it is 15 Deg and will add and retard regardless. The setting of the base timing is set out in the FSM. The procedure locks out the ECU from altering the timing so that what you set as the base timing IS the base or initial timing where the ECU will advance or retard from. MichaelZ
Michael, you are of course correct, but we've moved on a bit from this. We're waiting for someone to verify that an NA Auto while in Drive reports 20degrees timing via ecutalk or similar rather than 25 as per the TT Auto ecu. 8300zx9 has a SAW kit installed which interrupts the Park/Neutral switch so his ecu will not default back to 15degrees as it still thinks it's in Drive.
Apologies. Read about the SAW. I apologise for going over the same ground. I remember reading about the installed SAW. Wasn't thinking. MichaelZ
25 Degrees is correct according to SAW intructions Ok. Up to speed now. A quote from the SAW kit instructions reads as follows. " 6. Important notes on ignition timing! After installing Shift At Will, the ECU will use 25 degree timing when idling, even when the shift lever is placed in ?N? position. With the original ATCU, the ECU changes the timing to 15 degrees when the shift lever is put in ?N? or ?P? position. There are no drawbacks to this except when adjusting the ignition timing. The ECU is only assuming that the lever is always in the ?D? position, where it normally is placed while driving anyway. Adjusting the ignition timing can be done either after reconnecting the original ATCU and disconnecting SAW from the harness or by using a Cozult , Techtom MDM or other diagnostic equipment to read the timing used by the ECU. Using a diagnostic equipment to read the ignition timing used by the ECU is always recommended due to several l factors affecting the timing even when not using Shift At Will. Due to the ignition being set to 25 degrees, the engine may idle slightly higher than normal, when the gear selector is put in ?N? or ?P? position. I think this settles it. MichaelZ
I quoted that passage earlier. But the saw was more designed for the TT Auto which is a RE4R03A and the TT ECU is 25 degrees. We are now trying to determine if the NA Auto, which is a RE4R01A and the NA ECU uses 20 degrees instead. It was mentioned before that the NA auto advances to 20 degrees when in drive but just need it confirmed. If this is so, everything is fine, and he just needs to adjust his mechanical timing to 20 degrees to match the ECU reading. The proper way of doing it, is using Conzult to adjust the ECU reading to 15 degrees, set tps and base idle then adjust mechanical timing to 15. I started doing this to mine when I purchased the software, as the advanced timing does increase the idle slightly.
So after today's cruise (mountain driving) it was pining when going up the mountain so I had to stop and pull the DET bypass which stopped the ping but I was down in power for the rest of the day Sooo I still need to sort this, even if I don't do that driving everyday, it shouldn't have done that so it's still not right. I think what ill do is plug the standard ATCU back in and set the timing. But by then putting the saw kit back in I wonder if that would muck it up again?
As per the Saw manual, that's what you're supposed to do if you don't have Conzult. You will find after putting the saw back in, your timing will return to 20degrees via the ECU, but the timing on your motor will match this as well.
No, without the SAW kit connected, it should return to 15degrees base timing. This whole 20degrees thing is still unexplained and unconfirmed.
Question ? You said you out the pulley on recently? When you out the pulley on did you align the 0marker on the pulley with the engine at 0degrees ? Eh did you set it before you took the pulley off and put the new one on ?
