Feel the difference - 3" SS SuperSplit DP & 3"/2.5" SS TP

Steven, the pic of the control arms are not Stillen GenI. I haven't put those new ones on yet, the Stillen ones are still on. I guess I was trying to make my point that as soon as the name AMS was introduced into the DP/TP thread, everything went downhill and the attacks began.

BTW, did you also notice on the bottom of the manifold comparison pic? "Origin by MS Performance" " Designed, Cast and Machined in the USA"
Holy flag waving Batman!!! I think there's a little bit of that home grown patriotic thing in their approach as well. Funny, considering it's for a Japanese car.
Anyway, good points made Steven. Thanks for the pics.

 

LOL... actually, it's John Schrauwen - a good Dutch name
No...NO ... NO, I'm from the other side of the French border .....LOL. Just a couple hours north of Toronto.

PZP, I'm not familiar with those. An Australian made manifold? Even though we're a bit off topic from DP's and TP's, I guess the theme integrity is somewhat still intact with discussions on manifolds.
Chrispy, if you still have pics of your PZP's it might make for better comparisons insofaras explaining that there's only so many ways one can make a cast manifold to fit the VG30DETT. I think you're right about there being very few anti-AMS members here. Still, it didn't take long before my original theme got side-tracked by those few. There are only a few muffler shops that actually want to even take on the task of a custom system. Those that do make it very pricey anyway.
Further to that, I just made a recent post on 3ZC on my latest associated project. I currently have a nice ebay polished SS catback. I just ordered a set of LaBree mufflers from Brent LaBree of LaBree Motorsports. They're the same Sebring polished SS dual round tip oval mufflers you see on the expensive catbacks in the US. I'll be removing my polished SS single tip round mufflers and installing these to give it a more oem look. The price was very reasonable and they'll include the SS hangers designed for the Z so fitment will be a breeze.
Sounds like Chad is one of those pioneers that takes it to the next level - good for him!!!

John

 

Nah, I was referring to the suspension arms. No one here except maybe tektrader has made mani's, and I think they where modified version of the pentroof fabticated manifolds.

Not really, nearly every exhaust is custom made here, too expensive to ship cat backs all the way from Japland or the US. We normally use off the shelf dumps and some times front pipes as they are quite cheap out of Asia.

 

My Z's both have manually ported manifolds and both flow over 400rwkw's so there does not appear to be a lot of gain for the costs.

Despite that i would have purchased MS/AMZ manifolds if they had been out when I built my engine.

I looked at the SZ manifold but the cost and only 25hp gain and the potential for cracking requiring an engine pull put me off.

If I did it again the costs compared to the effort required for porting (2 days labour and two grinding bits and HPC coating) stockies make the AMZ/MS manifolds more cost effective.

If someone wants to give me a set for free I will do back to back dyno testing - hint hint.

 

Just...

....keep your prices super-keen and you will be my hero.
I'm actually happy for the competition, gives us Z owners choice and saves us money!

On a side-note, you'd never be able to patent these designs anyway.

 

my comments were regarding ur exhaust system going from 3 inch to 2.5 inch

the ams mani's look great... and the msp mani's probably weren't met with much skepticism, cos at the time, there was no other option

 

I didn't think they were. So who are they by?

cheers
:zlove:

 

You're going to design a manifold for a TT Zed that has to have an oem fitment, with bolt holes that line up with original accessory mounting points and original turbo placement and uses a cast material to avoid the cracking that most pipe types have suffered...
How else would you do it but to beef up the original design?

Both AMS and MSP have taken the same logical direction. Big deal.

Looking at the above pic of both side by side, the AMS type seems to have a lot more meat in the design, especially towards the part of the manifold furthest from the turbo. So there is at least that difference.

I'm not at the stage I need manis yet but when the time arrives I'm sure I'll be happy with either.

We're a backwater compared to the USA when it comes to AM parts for our cars. Thank god for Caz, Amec, PZP, UAS and Street to Strip.
Viva Le Competition

 

Rob, which ones are in that pic? You said MSP twice so I'm not sure if it was a typpo. Will you be posting the results of your test?

OK Matt, I wasn't sure. I know it seems to be a generally accepted that a built engine will benefit more by using a complete 3" system (front to rear). I don't know if that accepted thinking was made at a time when people either went 3" or 2.5" but not a combination of both. As I mentioned, I realize there may be a sacrifice of max HP given that a 3" system would require a higher rpm level to achieve it's max numbers. I'd prefer to sacrifice a slight bit of HP in exchange for a max HP that will be attained at an earlier rpm point . I'm just thinking that I'd like to keep my engine in one piece for a while. I'll also qualify that I had heard that a slight step-down from 3" to 2.5" near the end of the exhaust run will aide in the exhaust vacuation process which is supposed to be a good thing. Again, something I read in Z Forums. And probably the last reason would be that I really couldn't see myself buying another complete catback when the one I have is barely over a year old and 7 months of that it was in storage while I was in Afghanistan. So there were a few reasons for chosing the AMS DP and TP combo. I won't lie though, the pricing was a heck of a lot cheaper that buying from SZ or Z1 or anywhere in the States. And I don't have to pay for duties, taxes, shipping or exchange rate. And at least I can buy Canadian, which rarely ever happens.
I also see your point about the MSP mani's being the new kid on the block so of course anything new for the first time is always a big hit. When I see the 2 manifolds beside each other there are of course more similarities than differences. I think ozphoto said it best about the limitations available for a cast manifold to begin with. So any variations between after market cast manifolds are going to be very slight. And at first glance one would have a hard time distinguishing the two. Still, I see that Vuk has made some subtle changes that appears to have made some differences in flow was shown on a previously thread. I would think that Vuk being a qualified engineer and being in the Z arena for at least 16 years would make for a solid foundation of knowledge and experience. I was quite amazed to read some older magazine articles about his cryo treating his engine parts. That's some serious work.


Anyway, I wonder if I should go back and change the title of this thead to;
"Battle of the Manifolds - AMS vs MSP" ....... and in this corner......... LOL.