Feel the difference - 3" SS SuperSplit DP & 3"/2.5" SS TP

patent what? log style exhaust manifold for the z32? oh wait, nissan made one of them...

 

Steven, thanks for the links. Being an almost full fledged engineer yourself, you're able to make easy heads and tails of those 3 articles. They were a little too heady for me. Suffice it to say that Mr Nixit came up with his 300 Degree Fuel Rails after his R&D and made what would appear on the outside to be another Border Fuel Rail. But because he qualified his R&D, the 300 degree Fuel Rail was accepted by the community. Sorry, the tt.net community. The same community he has been a large figure in for 9 years. But wait, a non hard core tt.net member posts a new product that resembles another hard core members product. Hmmm, can't have this... No No No. We (the tt.net Guardians) will protect to whatever cost our bretheren product maker, regardless whether this new member's product has merit and has substantiated their R&D requisites. It doesn't really matter to this group, this member or his product will not be let in and will be summarily dismissed as a copier even though he's validated all of his claims, it still doesn't matter.
Again, it leads me to my previous post. Who are we to sit in judgement and proclaim to the masses? Still, these practices go on all of the time over there and sometimes those members try to flex those same ideals on other Forums that are usually met with a cold shoulder. That should say something about the midset and thinking process that some have adopted by their long term exposure to that site. I think the only medical cure available at present is simply growing up and showing some acceptance.

 

Most Z car communities dont have enough aftermarket support and here is a bunch of American Z32 dicks complaining about having too many.

"Oh my god, they bent bits of pipe the same way we did! Crime!"

 

I actually have the Border unit on my Z (long before 300 Degree was offered) and have installed a few 300 Degree units. I will assume you have not seen them side by side? To the un-trained eye they look identical. Of course 300 Degree 'improved' the design and that is O.K. We did the same for the expansion pipes and to most that is O.K. as well Especially where price is concerned!

We can argue till the cows go home but really people will chose what they want and competition serves the consumer in the end! No sense in getting personal and nasty like on the 'other' forum!


Regards,

Vuk@AMS
www.amszstore.com

 

Excellent, someone who can see through the "smoke and mirrors"

Thanks for that - well said!

 

Agreed that higher HP potential is there with a full 3" system but I decided different for a number of reasons.
There are fewer affordable/variety of 3" catbacks for a 2+2 than a 2.5".
The mechanics (or what I interpret from my research) shows there are benefits to a GRADUAL step down in an exhaust to maintain a steady exhaust pulse and speed.
Maintaining the exhaust pulse speed also will dictate at what point on the rpm curve max HP is achieved.
Max HP will be achieved at a lower RPM which is perfect for me but having a full 3" system would net even higher HP but higher in rpm curve which is something I prefer to stay from - preservation of engine internals.

You have to be intuned to the specifics to understand the big picture. Since you mentioned MSP manifolds, we'll talk about them.
The MSP manifolds were/are a great product (I'm currently using them as well) but the innovator who I agree again invested a lot into R&D and then that was it. He had the market cornered and no one was producing a similar type product. When this happens, a vendor can call his own price and has no worries from competition to deal with. Further to that, since the market is cornered, why bother trying to continually improve upon what you've already made? There's no incentive to do that. Yes, a great product is avavilable and now comes he next phase - availability. Thoroughout nearly the entire process retailers were having a difficult time trying to satisfy orders because the creator/owner/vendor could not meet demand. Hence the retainment of the inflated price. So at this pont we have a great product that's a real bear to try to get and it's pretty darn expensive as well.
So out of the 3 main factors (as I see it) for product success - Price, quality and availability, MSP was failing on 2 fronts.
Along comes another vendor who "appears" to have taken this great product to a higher level by publishing better flow numbers. Well that's great news - a similar product with better numbers. Add to that, this improved product will be priced even cheaper than it's predecessor - even better news. On top of that, this improved product is now offered with a warranty and has no restrictions to availability.
So what has happened here? A product has been improved upon by the competition, has been able to offer it at a cheaper price and has no restrictions to availability plus an included warranty. the competition has just stisfied all 3 main factors I previuosly mentioned.

Cause and Effect
In response to this competitors new product, does the original vendor set to work to try and come up with even a better product than his new competition? - NO He offers his product at a lower price that still cannot beat his competitions. If he's able to sell at that price now, why didn't he do that in the first place. It would have made it very difficult for the competition to try and get a foot in. Perhaps he was too confident in his product or his customer base which appears he took for granted. There may be something to be said by the expression - you snooze you loose.
Who's the winners and losers? The winners would be the new competition and it's customers. The losers would be the original vendor and his devout following who should have inspired him to not be so complacent and who refuse to see that competition breeds innovation.

 

I just find this all quite funny, like people really believe this is about loyalty and customer service and so on. It doesn't have shit to do with any of that, there's one thing and one thing only this is all about.



Here's a thought, quit buying from both of these knobhead companies until they quit airing their dirty laundry out in public. It's just an exhaust ffs so go get one custom made and copied exactly, it's not rocket science.

 

the more companies giving us quality and cheaper parts the better it is for us z owners. if that means another company can make it cheaper with equal if not better quality then :thumbup: for us.....

for the rest of u HARDEN THE F@CK UP

 

HID bit was me. I was more against copying another companies logo and therefore their hard work on establishing their brand. That's a slightly different issue to product copying IMO (not saying this is or isn't a copy, just referring to the two separate issues of product copying and using another companies brand).

 

okay.....0 well i had to say something....

so for the SZ loyal, do you put $700 worth into a bit of pipe......like seriously isnt that a weeks pay for some people and to spend it that way.....sorry im not just trying to say this for SZ but alot of car products especially for the zed really dont make any sense.....hence the competition......OMG how would this thread be if we were talking about the firsts cars (japan making cars overtaking the euro market)....would you say that hell to japan and there cars......they done the exact same thing, bring out a very similar product(the car) and make it better and cheaper....hell it made the euro cars pumping more quality and competitive prices which in the end helps me......

 

Need I remind you of the recent flow tests done (by an individual not associated with either AMS or MSP) that disproved AMS's claims of better flow. And showed the MSP manifolds to have superior (if only by a small margin) flow.

 

i never heard of that
got a link?

 

http://www.twinturbo.net/nissan/300zx/forums/general/view/2169590/AMS-vs-MSP-Results.html

 

What a mess, the U.S Z32 community (not you guys) should ashamed of themselves. What'll end up happening is in time companies will just say "f#ck these idiots" and quit making parts all together. Then what are they gonna do? It's back to the monopoly of one company charging what they what or even worse, nobody at all! God forbid people would actually have to think for themselves instead of buying kits for everything if that ever happend!

They're all whining old ladies with a Virginia ham under each arm but still having a cry because they aint got no bread! It's so damn hard for other gen Z's to get anything made because there is no demand, most of the stuff is done at cost by members of the community themselves. Other times stuff never gets off the ground because high price items are only purchased by a select few.

Hey American Z32 wanks, everyones sick of your bitching so quit it! lol

 

Thats a

tailored result imo, time constraints confirm it, he should have tested both manifolds on the same heads, on the same day. Imo he proved nothing.

 

I question the results because of his signature more than anything. Anyone who changes their signature to show their allegiance (or lack thereof) to a company is taking things entirely too personally.

 

Wow! Those guys act like 6 year olds (except Ash and a couple of others), they're worse than us..

Agreed... I don't really agree to flowbench testing exhaust manifolds anyway. As soon as you get ACTUAL exhaust flowing out of ALL exhaust ports at practically the same time the true flow figures will be all over the shop. It's fine on heads, keep it to that.

As Steve said, anyone who constantly advertises there outright hate (maybe too harsh a word) of a company that they are testing a product of, who could trust the results. I know a third party was there, but still...

Another flaw that Ash brought up was the testing of heads, valves and manifolds vs just the manifolds (as in the AMS sales pitch). If AMS claim that their manifolds (only) flow more on the flowbench, then you can't test the manifolds on heads with valves and say that the original claims aren't accurate.

Anyway, I'm liking this adult like discussing without dung being flung :thumbup:

And another thing jschrauwen, reckon you could use the enter key more and make paragraphs?

 

hey 300zxt, post this thread up on ttnet saying "hey we think you guys are...."

im 100% with you man..

 

yeah the title should be " jfk,blown away,what else do i have to say" then sign it Billy Joel

 

I'm aware of that test. They also posted it in 3ZC. You are right that his numbers did show better flow in 2 of the 3 cylinders. But why didn't you also mention that the test was flawed. The OP used a shop vac for vaccum source?????? What's up with that??
He did it himself in his own controlled environment.
He did it on only one bank of manifolds and not both.
He used it on a head with gaskets.
He used it with a ported head with 1mm OS valves

Given all of those specific parameters - YES, that bank manifold did flow better (2 of 3 runners) with that specific head.
How many people have that same ported head?
How many people have the same OS valves?
Was the other bank even tested?
If so, what were the numbers from the other bank?

Like I said, to me (and I'm no expert by a long shot) this test cam up way short and is therefore flawed. It's like comparing apples to oranges.
AMS's heads were taken to a third party and tested on professional equipment.
They were tested without gaskets and without being connected to a head obviuosly. And the MSP manifolds were given the identical test and AMS published the comparison results.
It's up to the consumer which test he wants to trust. To me, it's obvious.
I believe the hardliners have already made their mind up and will not budge from their support to their prefered vendors. And that's understandable. What's not fine is to bash another new vendor who is trying to compete against their favoured vendor. It's another alternative to us, the Z consumer. Simply say you're not interested in their product and leave it at that.