Agree ... it is way beyond time that a couple of trouble shooting Gurus got into a "hands on" with this issue .... it must be solve-able ... !!!! Probably the longest on going issue in my time on the Forum.
Thanks guys. Your right! I've Done every single thing to my Zed on my own with a few pointers here and there from the forum be side I haven't got a service manual. So the forum kinda is it's probably taking forever because I've checked almost everything and tried everything with no success. Today will be a "by the book" day and ill use the online service manual to problem solve the fuel and emissions section. It goes through how to check most of the potential causes. I might have to call up Mark (Jedi-77) to help me. If not after I consider just replacing out the fuel components until solved. It might be just one of those things that can't be found.
So I checked every thing for operation and continuity...everything checks out Sad face because I wish something was there not working and would answer this simply. Ran the procedure for pinging thats in the service manual but once again, everything did as expected. Im going to check the spark plugs now to see if there is any obvious leaning out signs. One thing I did do which I want your opinions on. I took the vacuum line off the FPR and the revs dropped quite a bit! It didn't like it at all....Does this mean the FPR is running as it should and doesn't need replacing? The fuel dampener gave the same results. Another theory I had today was maybe its fuel octane. Now I run 98 all the time and have done so over the 4 years or so of owning the Z. Back in 2012 I had a rattling under throttle at full operating temps (would start from 10mins of driving on). I was told here that it was the Intake sprockets. Now since realising the sound of the Ping. That noise in 2012 was definitely ping! But went away mid last year and never came back till now. So I did some digging in my Transactions to see what fuel brands I was using throughout this time. It was a mix of Caltex and BP. Bp probably more so as its along my usual driving routes. Then Mid last year'ish I swapped to Shell...about the time that pinging issue went away. Then January this year till today I went back to BP because there was a discussion on here about fuels and most recommended BP or Caltex. Only thing is I hadn't had the same pinging issue like back in 2012 but perhaps It takes time to make any effects? Just some thoughts but shows how desperate I'm getting Just for fun though I'll swap back to Shell.
Another update :rofl: Went for a drive and as expected pinged at 15degs. I was so bad that I had to pull over and pull out the Bypass as all it needed was less throttle. Tank was nearing the last quarter so I will it up with Shell V-Power. Obviously the old fuel will still be flowing through for the short drive to Autobahn so it was still the same. I got some Octane booster and stuck it in the tank. For the rest of the trip home, it got better and better to the point of being able to sit on 100km/h or 110km/h and pull good acceleration with no ping! So for now she's half fixed...FOR NOW!.... It could be the Octane booster or it could be also the Shell V-power. So ill run this tank out hopefully ping-free and fill it up with just Shell V-power and no additives....See what happens. One this I noticed if it related or not. Is this morning at temp it idle was ok, but did hunt just the tiniest bit if you want to be picky....you know, when you feel it shake a tiny tiny bit every now and then on Idle. And the injectors were fairly noisy ("tappety") which has been an on-off thing over the years, sometimes noisy sometimes not. When I got home from a Pingless drive, the injectors were very quiet and the Idle was sooo smooth...Even the digital readout on the ECUTalk was basically rock steady! Is this from the higher Octane? Better Fuel? Are the injectors the cause? If the injectors are noisy again, the small hunting at idle returns and pinging comes back on this tank of fuel...Then perhaps its the injectors packing it in...thoughts?
I hate V-Power since they bought out the new formula. caused my idle to be all sorts of weird. My auspec still pings on base timing / idle (even when its retarded by a few degrees) and tried absolutely everything (new ECU, new O2s, new injectors, temp sensor, replaced AFM, IACV, fuel filter, lighter oil, wiring loom - you name it everything under the sun - only thing I didn't change were cats or clutch fan which both seemed fine). The only thing that will make it not ping is BP 98 plus octane booster. I gave up since its been happening for two years and will go for a TT conversion if the NA dies. Someone pointed out that it could be the EGR delete, but I had a 92' auspec with the EGR fully functional and it did the exact same thing.
I honestly believe our fuel quality is getting worse, I wonder if this is the case with your NA's. personally I can not run the local caltex blends they cause havoc with my idle speeds, causing hunting and regular stalling at the lights, it also causes mild ping much like you are experiencing (I own a tt) I run BP 98 as a rule and even that seems to be getting less economy than usual in the last year or so
Bloody hell man don't say that! WHYYYY do the ping!!! If you replaced all that then whyyy! could it be this that become blocked? http://www.conceptzperformance.com/...r_Type=NIS300&UID=20140228224149124.181.210.3 Could only be the last thing to try...seeing as though its job is to cool the piston crown. We are getting Detonation because of to higher temps in the cylinders. If this little jet thingy mabob was blocked....perhaps its a cause? What about an Engine oil cooler? will this help me?
Wish I knew too man! I think next I should test fuel pressure and do an actual smoke vacuum leak test. I think Tekky once was experiencing the same issue on an NA and found a major vacuum leak behind the front bar on the air piping if my memory serves correct. Many people that have done smoke vacuum leak tests said that many small leaks appeared that they never would of heard by ear. maybe a combination of all these could be a potential cause.
Hmmm good idea. Wonder where I could find a smoke vacuum tester? is it a homemade type of thing? Im going to see how this plays out for now...its not pining but I don't want to have to add $40 extra to my already $70 odd tanks! It was running well on Shell V-Power despite what others have reported. I wont know now till I run this tank down, but ill then add just V-Power...if it pings (most likely) I'll just live with 10deg timing till I get an oil cooler in. So I think it now comes down to; 1) Cylinder Temps are too high even with the EGR fitted> Perhaps add an Engine Oil cooler to bring temps down to reduce the need to add such a high Octane fuel in. 2) Vacuum Leak somewhere> Smoke test
The V-power/octane booster may have just had the right stuff to clean out some gunk in an injector or two. Is it definitely the injectors ticking not lifters? For oil I would be guessing more at its viscosity or stability being the problem rather than heat in an NA, that said checking your oil temp after a long drive wouldn't go amiss. What oil are you using?. Another way oil can lead to detonation is via blow-by and the PCV system, too much oil in the combustion chamber is a well known engine popper, a good plumbed back catch-can will help reduce that. That said you should work top down, get a fuel pressure gauge and check your rail pressure is correct and moves with vacuum (disconnect the vac line at idle and pressure should rise, will make it run rich but you've done it once and it didn't explode. Make sure you block the vacuum leak you create doing this)
Its definitely my injectors...there just old n tired. There essentially a solenoid, which make a noise when open or closing...After doing that over 260k Kms it doesn't surprise me So ill be replacing them just out of wanting to get rid of that noise and just to tick of another job on the 1km long list. I run 10w-50 Penrite Oil. I have done so for the last 2 years. So thats one thing that definitely hasn't changed over the period of time where I'd have ping....then not. I you suggest something better for the NA, like weight or brand, then Im happy to try it. I swap the oil and filter out almost as much as I change my undies :zlove: haha.... well.... maybe not, but you get the picture. Its almost a boredom thing on a quiet weekend. I'm going to fit up and oil cooler for the Engine Oil...Can anyone suggest a brand for a bolt up kit. I was looking at the Stillen Kit. Any good? > http://www.conceptzperformance.com/...&Car_Type=300&UID=20140301223346124.181.210.3 Or a cheaper option? > http://www.conceptzperformance.com/...&Car_Type=300&UID=20140301223346124.181.210.3 Another drive today...28deg C today...no ping Obviously the higher Octane is doing the trick. So it still really could be any of the above in this thread causing the ping. But atm my money is on oil temps getting too high making the so called 98 Octane self-combust on these hotter days. See what winter brings....Or we are more than likely getting jibbed at the pump. We're paying top dollar for 91 Octane when we think we are paying for 98....Could easily happen, how could you know...Apart from the engine pinging or not performing?
The HPR 10-50 should be fine although on my tired engine I did find it made the lifter noise worse at temperature so it might thin a bit more than others. I'm sorry for bringing up oil now but if you're going to get a cooler you definitely want a thermostat, as far as I can see the Z1 kit is the only one available from czp that has a thermostat. Running an oil cooler with out a thermostat increases your start-up engine wear a fair bit which isn't going to make it run much better. Before fitting an oil cooler I would check your running oil temp and install an oil pressure gauge, if your oil temp is below 100C and your pressure meets the specs in the fsm there probably isn't much to gain from a cooler
Ummm dude, why dont you just turn the CAS back a bit at a time until the pinging stops? Its a long lost skill called tuning by ear!! Its an old school technique that NEVER fails. I had to pull 5 degrees out of my NA to stop rattling. To hell with whatever the interrogator proggie saysJust wind it back till it stops. This approach has NEVER failed!!! E
Yes sooo much to do yet! Thanks Tom! I need to put on another oil temp gauge for the trans too... Due to running the SAW, I want a digital read out of what it does when in manual mode and going through twisties. I have an external oil cooler for it too. These gauges will be a tempory feature of course, Although I see the need to have them as a permanent feature! But not gonna happen I only except the ECUTalk under my head unit as I made it look like a standard feature, which it does look like a 90's "high tech" feature haha Dad even listed how many gauges he uses constantly in aircraft as a pilot! It's crazy, but obvious! Such ricers Anyway, I can't wait to see what this new tank of just V-power will do. And so run some tests in the cool night if it still pings to see if its actually heat related... If it is then ill go ahead with gauges gauges and more gauges to see what the oil temps are doing. From there ill more than likely get an oil cooler.
Yes Rob your right! So much more fun! I had it turn back 5 but I had a noticeable loss in power I'd rather have it tuned correctly and sort out why it's pinging with I believe is oil temps but won't know for sure till I stick a gauge in. It's not like I've tuned it outside of spec... She's bang on 15degs. And yes I disconnected it on Friday night and reconnected after lunch on Saturday.
Im sorry but how in blue blzes has oil temp got to do with anything man??????? Oil will happily run anything between ambient and 125 degC. before you would even consider slowing down....... If your fuelling is not excessively lean, youve dragged triming out of it and it still pjngs but you lost power noticeably there a migh-hi-hi-hi-ty good chance an exhaust heat shield, clamp or something nearby is loose and rattling.
Who said I still get ping at 10degs? I don't... I lose power due to the retarded timing. Oil temps has everything to do with it. If the oil is heating up the cylinders too much on a hot day plus the compression of the gas, the more prone the fuel will be to detonation. Heat is one of the main causes as when air is compressed, it gets hot, much like a bike pump. As your compressing the air the pump gets hot. So in the case of poor fuel quality (too lower octane) the more prone it will be to self-detonate under these high temps in the cylinder... but why am I telling you this, im sure you know Instead of trying to run octane booster (which fixed the issue straight away) in every tank, my attention had turned to cylinder temps. Have you not read above how both James and Mark have swapped everything out!!! Same issues as me...Both NA's. So I'm going take that as a big hint it's a heat issue. NA's = high comp... High comp+high heat+shit Australian fuel= ping Not saying it definitely this... But I'm definitely going to run some tests and pursue this side of the dreaded "PING" And yes it is ping mate... I'm well tuned into that sound now. When I hear it, pull the DET bypass it stops. When I hear it, retard the timing 5degs it stops. When I hear it, add octane booster, it stops. It's ping....
Have to agree with Tas, I can't see engine oil temps causing the problem, engine oil doesn't 'heat' the cylinder, it cools and lubricates it. If it's getting so hot as to be the cause of ping you would have much bigger problems. Personally I'd be going back to fuel/air ratios. Get or borrow a wideband. Do you have any United Petroleum servos nearby? Another option would be to run Premium 100, higher octane than regular PULP with 10% ethanol, plus the ethanol content has a cooling affect on your air/fuel charge. Just need to change the injector power to switched (I assume NA will have the same problem TT's have?)
