are the z's vulnerable to sucking up water in flood like conditions?ie air box low and close to ground.
For a moment I thought this should have been in Non Z related until I read further I've heard of several engines hydrolocking due to water ingress. But from what I can gather, normal driving even in hard rain is no prob ~ but watch carefully for flooded roads/low bridges ... it doesn't take much water on the ground to reach the filter...
High revs My mechanic said this should theoretically burn off all the water in the combustion chamber as he's got a zed that hydrolocked while going slowly over standing water. And he commented his other hoon customer would not have the same problem due to his heavy right foot. What do you think?
to be aware of a potential catastropy is valuable i am sure that most z drivers have given consideration to the potential problem with high water, especially if you start to create a bow wave. i noticed the picture (not again), join a forum and know all the topics covered since it started. can you?
Nahh, I just put that there as a parody of someone who has hydrolocked their motor...Nothing to do with your question mate... Don't take it personally!!! :thumbsup:
sorry mate! lets z forward. i had this weird idea that is used in boats, pinpong type balls that float up and block of inlet, shuting down motor but preventing taking in water.
Shouldn't make a difference the engine sucking in air either way (or in this case water). Higher revs would if anything digest more. The water need not even be water, it could be a steam by the time it's gone through the turbo, but when compressed it will go back to water and, well, won't compress, and bingo you've got a problem I've seen quite a few nasty photos on TT.net of Z's with bent conrods due to drinking water, the low nature of the Z I don't think helps, nor does the location of the filter (as opposed to being in the engine bay like many cars). Ben
Wow!!! I bet you drove your teachers mad !!! You have the perfect "Whatif" personality needed to come up with some potentially excellent ideas, keep it up, it's creative people like you that end up millionaires ...:thumbsup: Dunno bout ping pong balls, I'd be too afraid of them getting sucked in as there's lots of vacuum being drawn thru the filter especially with turbos... Me, I'll just avoid floods...
what about rigging up some ping pong balls to the blow off valves and point em out the side so we can shoot em at the skyline drivers as we drive past? :LOL:
I dont think thats correct Higher revs, more fuel, higher combustion temps means can tolerate more water without hydrolocking. It depends on the quantity of water and the volume as well as how atomised it is. Obviously big drops/puddles would be a problem whereas atomised particles are not. The filter unless submerged should be limiting the amount of water coming in so hopefully more airflow equals a smaller concentration of water in that air volume. Also steam wont change back to water in a turbo. Takes a lot more compression than 20psi or so at the temperature it leaves the combustion chamber. Ive never heard of water causing this problem on any water injection systems. Stands to reason that more boost and more rpms equals better discharge of water because all (bar one shops) rally and performance water injection systems are only setup to inject water at boost for this reason, to prevent damage from hydrolock.
Why not.... Put a huge 4x4 Snorkel on ya Z !!!! Perfect for when your driving your z through massive flash floods and you may even start a new trend
The last time I looked the pressure inside the cylinders> was in the order of 140-180psi (depending on whether you have an NA or TT), not 20psi. Back to the drawing board on this one, I think.:LOL: Ben is right.:thumbsup:
how do you figure that? When I read Bens comment I figured he was talking about the steam leaving the combustion chamber and hitting the exhaust side of the turbo. Obviously your thinking of it coming from the intake side and hitting the chambers. Rereading it, this was likely what Ben was meaning. Either way as soon as it hits the combustion chambers water is vapourised into steam. Depending on the quantity of water perhaps not all of it can be converted to steam but certainly no steam ever gets coverted to water. There is too much heat and not enough pressure. If you think a gas is converted to a liquid by applying heat then you need to brush up on your chemistry i think, or at least watch your kettle boil. To give you some substance to my answer, let me explain some simple chemistry about changes in phase of water. Its basically governed by temperature and pressure and is to do with the energy states of the molecules and if they have enough energy to break existing bonds (as a liquid) to form a gas. Temperature is more important than pressure. With water this is called the vaporisation curve and is a set of values where there is equilibrium between the change of state from liquid to gas depending on the pressure. At a cylinder pressre of 180psi, the volume of water injected only needs to reach 177 degrees celcius or 450 degrees kelvin (a close approximation since I cant be stuffed doing the calcs). At this temperature water is in equilibrium between being liquid water or gas. So any temp higher than this means that water is purely gas. The higher it is above this, the more pressure it takes to convert it back to liquid. When it hits 647 Kelvin or 373 degrees the pressure it would take in the combustion chamber to reach the equilibrium point is 3200psi! Any water temp above this cannot be returned to liquid state no matter what pressure. Now the complicated bit happens depending on the volume of water. As water enters as a liquid it absorbs heat from the combustion chamber, this is what converts it to gas. So the combustion temps are actually lowering depending on how much water is entering. If you were injecting the water at idle, and say the combustion temps were at 400 degrees, it can cool temps to less than 177 degrees quite easily as its latent heat is very high. If this happens you get hydrolock which is why only 1 shop does it. However when your at boost your temps are up as high as 900 degrees so it take a LOT more water to get it back down to 177 degrees. This is why higher revs and boost are better if you get water in the intake and why its bad to get water in there if your off boost or idling. Hope this helps you Chili. Feel free to check my numbers but they should be ballpark close. Im sure some of the chemsitry nerds on the forum can chip in I havent done chmistry for quite a few years now. To give you better answers it helps if you provide more info when you disagree with someone rather than just making statements and provide no proof whatsoever.
we should not get confused with water injection and water flooding the air box. what was ment by this post was basically making people aware of flash floods and driving a thorough-bred high performance sports car.a discussion like this could save someone a lot of dollars and some heart ache. once water gets through to the intake manifold you have a major problem. the amount of steam you produce is impossible to predict, hydraulic lock would the most likely mode of failure.i don't know for certain,however this is all about awareness and prevention.has anyone experienced flood conditions with a z?
Its exactly the same thing so there is no confusion its water entering the combustion chamber, either injected or flooded through the air box, either way its still water. The question debated is if being on boost with high rpms gives you some protection against this water, which it clearly does. It allows higher volumes of water to be safely cleared without hydrolock. So if you have to go through water your far better off going through it at high revs. An important point dont you think?
with water injection you are controlling quantity with flooding of the air box you are not.i do not know for shore, but water displacing air in the intake manifold is not likely to work for long,is my quess.i am not going to drive through deep water in a manner where by i creat a big enough bow wave to flood the air box.
Your missing the whole point Zed A drives slowly through a deep puddle and gets 200ml of water in the intake. Zed B drives hard with high revs through the same puddle and gets 200ml of water in his intake. Zed A has just hydrolocked his engine and Zed Bs engine has just cleaned the carbon deposits from his combustion chamber. Which bit dont you get? Water injection is precisely the same thing except your obviously limiting the amount and only doing it a high revs for this reason. It can clear water forever and a day as long as the volume of water entering is heated above the magic 180 degree or so mark. When the combustion temps start dropping and molecules of water are no longer reaching this temp then you get hydrolock, not before.
