Cranking but no Spark

So my first start attempt failed.

Heres the basics:

- All 3 grounds at the back of the Plenum (2 regular cables, 3rd is the braided one) have been put in.
- Uploaded the new Tune successfully
- I cranked it for 30 seconds with the Fuel Pump Fuse out
- Plugged Fuse back in and cranked... nothing
- Checked error codes on Conzult, was getting Code 32: EGR (obviously, since I cut it out) and Code 21: Ignition Signal which I'm assuming is PTU
- Pulled out Coilpack 3 and did the ol' screw driver in there and hold against chassis for a second while cranking to see if its sparking... nothing
- Strong smell of fuel, but I checked and re-checked, not a single leak, I'm suspecting this is due to no spark and no exhaust (I only have dumps on there right now) so fuel is just passing through
- Reset error codes on ECU through ECUtalk and cranked again... nothing
- Checked error codes and now am getting 55, so all good yet when I crank... nothing

I can't smell anything burning, nothing is hot to the touch, but it just refuses to spark. I don't think I burnt out my PTU because I didn't miss a single ground but I can't figure out why she won't friggin spark.

Suggestions?

(I will be going S2 PTU very soon, so I'm looking for further suggestions to test / 100% diagnose my current problem first)

Cheers,
MoulaZX

 

If you've had the ECU out, make sure its plugged in properly. Bolt can still screw in while 1 side of the plug is slightly out. Black common earth point isnt too far from the ECU plug either. Check that it hasnt been damaged.
What are the pins like on the s1 ptu? Pull the rubber cover off to inspect if any have been pushed back in the connector when plugging it back in. Small terminal screwdriver from the outer edge of the pins will return a good contact.

With fuel pump fuse removed, pull the CAS and rotate it. Will be able to hear injectors clicking and will simulate spark sequence. A timing light will still bring up a signal on the input side of the PTU as well as the output.

 

Got a spare working S1 ptu to exchange

 

Checked this, everything here looks fine, no wires damaged and plug fully seated into ECU.

Checked them, all pins look fine, none look damaged or bent. What do you mean about the small screw driver bit though?

This is the strange one. I took the CAS out and while in the ON position I spun the CAS, but I heard nothing, no injectors clicking (which is strange considering the fuel smell, clearly the injectors are working), few seconds after spinning the CAS by hand I heard a relay click and the AC Fan turned on, I stopped turning the CAS and a few seconds later the fan stopped. Wtf?

MoulaZX

 

Might take you up on that mate.

MoulaZX

 

should be able to hear the injectors clicking with rotation of the CAS. Aux fan coming on is indicative of poor connection of the CAS plug.

Regarding checking the PTU plugs. Within the plug housing, the small internal plastic tabs that hold the plugs into position snap, causing the pins to slide back within the plug, not allowing a connection. This is further caused when retensioning the old plug pins. With the rubber surround (which is often perished anyway) removed from the back of the plug, the ends of the pins are visibe, where the loom wires are crimped to them. IF the pins have dislodged and slid back, it will be noticeable from the end of the plug. Pressure with a small terminal screwdriver allows you to push the pins back into place, making a connection with the PTU.

 

Never heard this before. If so, whats the solution here? What are the implications? And if that's the case, why can I smell fuel when I crank with the Fuel Pump Fuse in, and not smell Fuel while cranking without the Fuse...?

Will double check this again now, but I saw nothing unusual.

Also, even after starting recently, there is no spark, however I'm not getting any error codes, making me even more confused.

MoulaZX

 

I would say there is a few issues going on here.

#1 You say that you have 3 earth wires on the back of the plenum including the fuel rail earth, infact there should be 4 (2 bolt on behind #6 coil pack)

#2 No spark and code 55 indicates the ecu is not in start mode, code 21 is primary ignition circuit not just ptu like is commonly thought. The ecu needs 2 things to swith to start mode, key switch start signal and rpm signal. My guess is your missing the keyswitch signal.

#3 You should not be getting a code 32 even with EGR gone, something wrong in the harness or tune.

#4 Your harness layout will make it very hard to diagnose, I can't even tell if you have your injectors and coils connected in the right sequence.

#5 Has the tune been uploaded correctly and is it actually functional.


Far too many things have been changed to give a definative answer to what is wrong. But the first thing I would do is confirm you have all your earths on, then confirm the ecu is working since the nistune was installed (not sure if this was done previous or now), then I would check you have a properly uploaded tune. Once you have those things sorted out, you need to see if the ecu is getting a start signal in consult. If so, I would troubleshoot it as a code 21 error even though there is no code.

 

To add to A2's post
check all vacuums, especially the one that goes to the balance bar on the drivers side, make sure you haven't put the water jet pipe on the balance bar, check fuel lines are connected the correct way around, check the injector connections as well as the CAS connection / PTU connection.

For now id put a standard ECU and see if you can get it started on that. if you can then you know your tune is at fault.

I know it sounds like im saying about simple fixes, but then you are talking to someone who changed a gearbox due to a fuse issue.

 

Thanks for the response.

EDIT

From what I can see, I have all four Grounds in, 3 off EFI Loom, 1 off Fuel Rail... the 3 off the loom, 2 of them (ones near the AAC & FICD) are under the same bolt, hence the confusion.









MoulaZX

 

- Water Jet Pipe check
- Vacuum pipes all good
- Fuel Lines done according to Service Manual so check
- Injector connectors brand new
- CAS Connection seems to work if you read above you'll see what I mean, still has me scratching my brain as to why it's doing that...
- PTU pins cleaned, no change
- Standard ECU can't be used, Injector and Intake differences don't allow it



MoulaZX

 

Code 35 is a bit odd, what year is your car? Early S1, 2, 3 did not have a few codes, 14 26 31 32 33 35 45 51 53. These were not possible until the 16 bit ecu which may even be 96 on.

You may have a base map issue in your tune.

Edit for your edit. I only see one in that picture near the IACV, there should be 2 eye terminals there, each with 2 wires in them.

 

Mine is '90. ECU is 41P03.

They are there, they are just both are under the same bolt. Don't see how that could cause an issue though...?

First the Gearbox Pivot Ball crap, now this eh? heh.

MoulaZX

 

As long as they are both there, that is ok.

Your ecu is correct, I would say you have the wrong base image file for the tune. No other way I can explain a code 35 in an ecu that doesn't support it. Will this make it not start? no idea but I doubt putting an early tune onto a late image is going to work.

 

Guess I'll have to hunt around for someone who knows something about Tunes to come over to rule it out...

MoulaZX

 

New development.

I took the CAS out again, while in ON spun it by hand, this time I heard everything clicking away. Took Coilpack 3 out, stuck another plug into it and grounded it. Spun CAS and it came out with a good strong spark. The fact there is spark... doesn't that mean my PTU is fine? I did spend about 20 minutes cleaning the pins off the PTU last night...

Fuel is there too, yet it still won't start. Came to almost start a few times but couldn't keep it going.

Thought I had mixed up my CAS with a few other CA18DE ones I have lying around (they fit exactly the same, and same plug) but nope, 23731-45V10 is for a Z32, 23731-85M10 is for the CA18.

MoulaZX

 

Yea, I think thats going to be my next move. Checking all plugs.

Cheers,
MoulaZX

 

Hope she comes good for you, I can't think of 3 earth grounds comming of the loom, can only think of two one on each side of the plennum and the braided one on the fuel rail.

 

Look at one of my posts above, you'll see.

Just took my plugs out now and holy shit they were soaked in petrol. Definitely fouled.

Not sure why though as I know the Tune has changed. I'm suspecting the extended cranking during the no spark period fouled the plugs, then when I cleaned the PTU pins, by that time the plugs were fouled so in that case it still wouldn't start (which kinda makes sense as the 2nd time around it felt like it was almost about to start...), but not because of the no spark issue, but now because of the fouled plugs. So just bad timing (not engine timing, chronological timing ) all round I'm hoping.

Drying out plugs now with some compressed air and the same with the cylinders, will give it an hour before I go back down and try to start it again. Fingers crossed.

MoulaZX