Could a 300 be made to handle close to or as well as 4wd turbos like Skyline/EVO etc

At the moment making a very clear focus on the handeling and braking of the car. My question to some may appear dumb and broad and people might want to chuck in all variables but i am not talking about mod for mod stuff and obviously with the same mods I am sure the 4wd will always come out on top. What i do wants is a benchmark for my car and work towards it. For me its a stock EVO/GTR. Out the box ppl tell me the evos/WRV/GTR handle brilliantly thanks to the 4wd and computer aids. Is there anyway in hell to make the 300 handle as well as a factory EVO/GTR etc. Maybe I wil get laughed at or maybe its possible... I am keen to hear people thoughts that may have driven both. .... any comparison or thoughts on what can be done would be good. It seems there are a few zeds tearing 4wd turbos a new asshole...but is that down to purely more power rather than excellence in the twisties. :br:

Cheers

 

I've never liked 4wds in the hills, my zed destroys my wrx in the hills every time.
even evos etc struggle, it all comes down to the driver!

a zed has near 50:50 weight distribution and for me has never let me down in the hills against some fast cars and I was only in an NA.

tyre choice helps more than anything.

 

Having Cool jeans doesn't hurt either!

 

Really?? HMMM..interesting point.

I thought/Knew Tyre choice would be a HUGE consideration. I have just gone to Toyo R1R....ridiculous tyres IMHO better than the Pirelli Corsa I had....given i have never driven a Evo/GTR so cant compare how mine would go against theirs now.This is why I am seeking guidance.

How was your Car faster than the WRX, anything that you had which stand out???

 

toyos are great, RE01s ate my semi of choice though.
so nice choice on your behalf, how'd u find the corsa?

I've had a toy with tophers GTR in the hills as well as a 34gt-t and gtir pulsar.
tophers 32 pulled away on the steiaght but cornering wise I'd catch him
everytime! the 34 was epicly shit, an the gtir was crazy! there was no chance of keeping up!

my car outhandled the Wrx in every way! Rex has sway bars coilovers and anti lift kit, with ku36s and the zed had sway bars coilovers strut braces and re01s and destroyed it.
the Rex killed the straights but understeer was happening alot, I guess with an NA you can't oversteer and the tyres were good enough to stop the understeer and made it alot faster through mt. dandy. will he interesting to repeat in the TT!

 

weight loss and huge tyres will do the trick. zeds are heavy in the front so they can understeer more than a rex or evo. when i went for a ride in the UAS slotcar that thing surprised me big time, i thought it would've been a bit sketchy because of the power levels but it turned really sharp and smooth and powered out of corners beautifully. he has something like 295s on the back i think.

 

So i am really getting that with a good spring and shock combo, good alignment and sticky tryres your almost there and could mop the floor of these 4wd dirt bags.....

As for the R1R over the Corsa to answer your question. I never really got the explore the Corsas on the track or in the right heat range....apparently when they heat up they are at their best whereas the Toyo r1r work from Cold. Have not been able to get them to spin yet powering out of corners but car feel fricking way quicker with them as they are just glued to the bitumen....dont want to test the limits on street the limits would be ridiculous by the feel of it. Wicked tyres highly recommend. Better than the Corsas on the street IMHO. Dont know round a track. But not a huge amout betweeen them apart from price. I will not be buying Corsas again. Love the TOyos. In saying this Corsas are good though not rubbishing them at all.

See i have got so far. Tein Caster arms, Ohlins adjustable shocks + Springs, sub frame collars and UAS Clutch (Sweet clutch really raw) and the Toyo R1R and a decent alignment, but need to get some camber arms on the rear to get less negative camber.

Could really this be the only key to making it better in the twisties? Ppl talk about these cars like God himself created the handeling characteristics.....is it just hype?

 

Remember to tweak the nut behind the steering wheel as well .... a very substantial contributor to this equation.

 

More about the driver than anything, but in saying that it would be a lot of work to make a zed handle as well as a Evo.

My Evo kills my zed through the mountains and it's standard and is running pretty rubbish Federals. The zed on the other hand has:

New Tein SS
Rosejointed everythings
New bushes everywhere
Whiteline swaybars
Nismo 2 way
Potenza Adrenalins


The corner exit speed of the Evo is phenomenal and it's got the whole torque split between left and right rear wheels and front and rear wheels. Absolutely amazing. Best fun I've ever had up the mountain was flogging the evo around the real tight twisties in the pouring rain. Evo just wants to help you go fast, the zed wants to kill you.

 

zeds do not have near 50/50, infact, they are VERY light in the rear, and without good tyres, they handle like absolute rubbish to be honest.

A 300zx is more of a GT, when nissan designed them, they were competing in the market against cars which were for cruising with power, as opossed to GT-R which was almost a purpose built track car and newer EVO's which alot of money and development goes into the handling aspect for rally.

Not to mention the old chassis, which newer technologies again have made improvements on for newer cars, plus the fact that it is a 20 year old chassis.

But, the fact is, alot of retards fit crap tyres to there cars, dont spent money on brakes, and cut the springs or buy the cheapest springs they can possibly get there hands on.

buy any car, fit nice wide grippy rubber, either a decent semi, or something like contactsports, GS-D2/3's. sp9000's, rosso's, etc, with decent brakes, and your already more then half way to molesting 95% of cars on the road through the twisties.

Also remember, if your setting your car up for street, don't fit stupidly low springs/coil overs with high rates, cause you will just end up half way to killing yourself also.

 

actually mate I think you will find the 2+2 zed pretty close to 50:50 weight distribution !

 

weight distribution

From a 2005 post by JT
weight distribution figures

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 seater - front 55/45 rear
2+2 - front 53/47 rear

 

Nice tyre choice Rod. You ought to check out the RE11's, same compound used in the RE01R's, and a better tread pattern for dispersing water.
Overall suspension setup is key. Caster, camber, toe out, and appropriately stiff springs front and rear.
... But yes, these Evo's with their torque split, help tremendously from what I gather. Evo's are clearly the weapon of choice at the world time attack challenges.
Also, Rex's and Evo's NEED LOTS more castor than what they are OEM. Totally different beast when caster is added apparently. No more understeer at all.

 

Never has a truer word been spoken. I have driven a bazillion zeds and have also driven chrispy's evo, a few rex's and a gtr. No comparison. The zed isn't a bad handler by a long shot, but the evo is streets ahead even compared to the rex and older 32/33 gtr's.

 

I think it's funny that Mitsubishi have a range of mediocre products you could say, and yet their Evo is so good - it is like it is made by another company.

 

It pretty much is made by another company.

 

on paper it may say that.

Take it down to your local sim's metal with dual weigh trays, and get the weight off both axles. the figure wont look quite as good as it does on paper, from memory this is going back a while, but my 2 seater NA was closer to 60/40 with half a tank of fuel.

 

So much of RWD vs 4WD comes down to the driver. Miss daisy can make the EVO handle well...making the zed handle well comes down to how big your balls are. Also don't forget that making a zed outhandle an evo on a circuit is very different to on a road...you need to stay in your lanes on a road, and thats where the evo shines...

The main benefit of 4WD is as Chrispy said, is when you can get back on the power and your exit speed. A 4WD system won't help you if the throttles are closed, they don't miraculously handle better. So on a track they are driven differently. They can brake later and carry more speed into a corner because they can pull out of the corner earlier, using all 4 driven wheels and fancy torque splits to overcome understeer and oversteer. A zed however, will understeer if driven in to a corner too hard, and oversteer quite convincingly if too much power too early.

To make a RWD car like the zed compete with this, you need to naturally reduce it's under and oversteer tendencies. Massive thing is weight. Both in it's fat ass, and in the tendencies for the old-girls chassis to flex and roll and shift weight around. I know the weight of the zed is on par with alot of current production sport cars, but they are designed much better. ie, a BMW 135, similar weight similar power, RWD, will monster the zed anywhere, anytime. Less weight over the nose will reduce understeer. Less weight everywhere will reduce body roll and both understeer and oversteer.

Next is wheel track. The longer and wider it is the better your going to be in a car like the zed. A wider track will help reduce understeer, and a longer track will help reduce over steer.

Spring and shock choice is a big one as well. Cheap shocks and springs are often too hard and or too slow. You won't be able to absorb bumps in the road and it can spit you off. Same with suspension suited to circuit racing. If it's handling for the street and you don't want to spend $2500 on half decent coilovers, get a good shock and spring combo like bilstein/eibach or AGX/eibach for about the $1000 mark. Don't go too low, you'll fk up your roll center, increasing it's radius and actually making the weight transfer worse.

Tyres, get good ones. Don't go too wide or you'll never get heat into them, and they won't perform at their best. Don't get R-comps for the street, they'll never work and you'll chew them out. Good S-Comp semi or a good silica based street tyre.

Do some track days so you know how the zed performs on it's outer limits. People may say their zed never understeers...because they never drive them properly. A stock zed, and a zed with cheap coilovers understeers like a pig once you step over that limit line, and it then oversteers like a demon. Chrispy's right, the zed will try to kill you once your past that limit, and it's so much fun...right Chrispy? :rofl:

 

Well whenever I have to go somewhere other than work I take the Zed, so I guess so