My 2 cents Being half Canadian, half kiwi, and from the point of being a member of the Australian community I whole heartedly agree with this point of veiw WITHIN this forum only As has been pointed out, there is a time and place for everything I had voted yes, but after reviewing the thread, I agree with Blipman in principle in regards to the forums policies. I withdraw my vote. Obviously these policies are living and change with time and experience. Experience has proven itself negative in the past within the forum on this subject, there by evolving the policy to what it is today. (Time and place) This forum has in a sense "sacrificed its ability to address the topic of religion, because of the actions of others" to uphold it's values and purpose that take priority to keep the peace. The forum has not created an opinion or point (and not fair to ask of one), but more or less avoided aggression when taking into account its purpose and values. Again think of the forum as a separate entity, being neutral, without bias. This is not an opinion, but more a response to a problem far greater than all of us. This thread proves that the policy is still changing (however slow and in whatever direction) and that the topic can be touched upon without predjudice.
I vote NO! Not because this is predominantly a car forum, or because I hold a particular religious point of view, or for any of the other myriad of reasons that have been put forth. But simply because History has shown that the various religions and political ideologies are so intolerant of each other that they can't co-exist, and in spite of everyones best intentions, most discussions on religion or politics WILL degenerate into a flame war. The Saracens invaded Europe because they thought the Christians were wrong. The Crusaders kicked them out and ravished the Middle East, because they thought the Muslims were wrong. India and Pakistan are at each others throats because of religious (and political) differences. West and East, as exemplified by the Europe/US and the various Communist States (Communism IS a substitute religion after all) cannot get along. Even religions of the same faith behave like a group of Vacuum-cleaner salesmen touting their own product to the detriment of all the others. Where does this leave us? I think that our common ground (The ZED) is sufficient to allow us to co-exist, and I accept that others may have differing views on other aspects of life. I personally am never happier or more satisfied with my life and lifestyle than when I am with a group of Zedders, talking about Zeds and other cars in general, without bringing personal beliefs into the discussion. I'm quite comfortable that others may think differently than myself.... it's their (God) given right!
The sh!t stirrers are few and can be counted on one hand and this is NOT only a Zed forum it has also a NON zed section where we don't talk Zeds, arguments or flame wars are evident in other topics not only religion and you will find offensive posts all over the place so prevention is not the cure because if it was then UD PULLEYS AND FRONT & SIDE MOUNTS should be prevented from all discussions as those topics start more flame wars, arguments and offensive posts than any religion or politics thread BTW, I voted Yes, because I'm mature enough to read through anything that is NON Zed related in the NZR forum without getting angry I have been a member here for ages, I think it was 2001 that I joined but I was reading the Forum way before then and have witnessed all the changes it has gone through since day one I have made many friends from this Forum and all are very very good people and we all get along great and we can talk about anything between ourselves including religion and politics, I think the key words are, MUTUAL RESPECT, and we have that for each other BTW, NZR is not only for Post whore threads, I'm sure if we practice MUTUAL RESPECT, we can talk about ANYTHING and be grown up about it Cheers, Michael.
Just when I had almost given up hope, along come Michael(MrZee) and Doug(red32) with well balanced and honest approaches to this crap fight. Thanks guys, for cutting through the crap and getting to the heart of the matter. Extremists of any persuasion will always create havoc with their total refusal to accept a different point of view, and they should be seen for what they are, individuals with intolerant, extreme attitudes and not part of the mainstream population. Just give thanks that the majority of us fall into the middle ground and get along just fine. Placing restrictions on the subject matter that the majority of our members may discuss, is handing control of the debate to the extremists, and should be avoided at any cost IMHO.:zlove::zlove:
maybe we should rename the "Non-Zed Related section" to something like "OI Check This Out section" since its mainly for showing others jokes and what not...(which is cool by the way)
YOU NAUGHTY BOY .. !!! ..that could be seen to be very provocative ( in a non-religious way, of course ..!!!!) .. and the charddy shack celebration show is one fine idea that could well happen around that time with a couple of derros already planning a pre 25 december ( cannot mention THAT religious word .. !!) BLOWOUT ..!!! ..whoppeee ... on a serious note .. how good are the posts by doug and michael .. sensibly and coherently presenting the case for both the pro/con in a considered, non confrontational manner .. top stuff .. and, i think, just what geoff was looking for ... loved both posts ...
Lloyd you know my thoughts on street racing, and I usually delete such threads as soon as I spot them, although I sometimes leave them so members can hopefully shame the bragger into never doing it again. The UDP/SMIC/FMIC arguements are largely in the past, i've carefully watched most of the recent discussions but they have held back from breaking into the wars that they were. Other posts that are offensive to members we rely on the RBP emails to gauge the thoughts of the members. For example I've deleted a few posts in this thread to try and preserve the integrity of the thread and let the poll run it's course. Shifter may think I called it early but if that was the case I would have locked it and be done. Instead I'm trying to give it a go.
i'm sorry if you couldn't make any sense out of that chili, i couldn't word it any more simply and you may as well pray to the "great pumpkin" as you have as much chance of getting your prayers answered by that than anything else you may pray to, strange thing is i don't believe in hell either, you should seek out the definition of atheist
I said that it sounded "like a sermon from Hell", not that "you believe in Hell". I assumed you don't really believe in anything at all. It's good to see you have a sense of humour, maybe The Great Pumpkin will smile on you afterall(I'll go and ask him right now).
i believe that i have an extremely fast and powerfull car, that is red , then again, i can prove that, lmao
You ask for proof But where is your proof that an afterlife or another kind of life beyond death DOESN'T exist. The universe is infinite, and you sit there and tell us you know it all? How do you know? I'm not sure I could be that arrogant, but maybe you know something I dont? You sound very sure. And before you start saying how sure of themselves dedicated religious folk are, remember, it is called faith. Different all together. You have none so what do we call your 'belief' which is also based on no physical 'evidence' either? Actively NOT believing in something is a belief system in itself. I would have thought aethiests would be more along the lines of 'dont know, dont care'. And like most other aethiests here, still exercise religious tolerance, respect and are interested in what people have to say and are not insulted by people who merely consider the possibility of things beyond our understanding or comprehension such as an afterlife (to which even the laws of Physics agree with) or a God. Would love to see your evidence though
actually what i have is lack of belief, not belief, now if you choose to say "god exists" then the onus is upon you to provide evidence to support your statement, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", i on the other hand do not claim anything other than the natural universe exists and as we are aware and living in it i think it is safe to assume that the universe does in fact, exist and by the way, i have little to no tolerance for religion and absolutely no respect for it
yeh i would of thought innocent till proven guilty... to me that is, its not true until u prove it is...
without a doubt the most awesome post i've ever read......... the timing..... brilliant!! Reading through the thread definitely some interesting, well written points of view are being expressed. the beauty of things such as religion is there really is no right or wrong, and it can't be proven, which i think is a cool thing. you could prove who has the faster car by doing a series of tests, which may not be accurate etc., but you can't test faith. i'm a non-practising catholic. i'm not sure if i believe in god, but i'm not one to ponder about it too much. the way i see it, i've had close friends/relatives pass away, which has made me question is there really a god. but then i've been in situations where i need help and support, and i have prayed to god. my conclusion, i'm really not sure. i think its great that each person has different relgions and views (muslim, catholic and atheist for example). different views and opinions are what make a forum so great, you are receiving many different answers on one thing when posing a question. it can become personal however when something such as religion is brought into it. for religion, i think if your brave enough to post about it, then you should be brave enough to receive the backlashing that comes with it. i'm going to stop now as i'm confusing myself now as to what i was writing about?
Talking about religion is like discussing which car manifacturer is better - they all have good and bad points but at the end of the day, they all produce cars. If i want to believe that the sky is green then who cares, im not hurting anyone. Same goes for if i believe in god or not. If you think you can change someones religious belief/opinion on a public forum then you are just fooling yourself. If you want to discuss religion then how about answering your front door instead of hiding the next time the mormons/jw's come knocking. How about discussing something easier like if ufo's and aliens really exist or if the spotted ufo's are really travellers from the future that have come back to view the world (possibly for high school history excursions) and the reason these 'aliens' come for a look but cannot touch is because they cannot interfere with the past... Or how about if you were born seeing the sky as yellow but were told that it was blue, therefore all your life you see yellow things but call them blue. Now what if that happened with other colours as well - what kind of multi-colour madness are people really looking at thinking it is 'normal'... and what would normal be? Anyway.... I vote no - because i dont care. even if your belief involve sticking a carrot up your ass and running around naked, then that is fine with me but just dont expect me to do the same, and i sure as hell dont wanna talk about it with you. There is already a forum that has cars and religion hand in hand and if you are keen to want to discuss these things then how about you go there. http://hrc.s10.forumsplace.com/
