This from 300 degrees Re the seal on the "legit" copies: They are really both the same as far as the fitting and the rail are concerned. The top image is of the older version of our kit which included an O ring as a secondary seal to the primary AN fitting's seal. The bottom image is the newer version which does not use an O ring at all. The AN fitting is the primary and only seal. Notice there's still a gap between the fitting and the face of the rail where the O ring would have been compressed. We decided a few lots back to stop including the O rings all together. They had become 'throw in' parts to the kit and were not functioning as they were intended since we started shipping kits. They provided some amount of seal, but not enough to stop a high pressure leak. We depend on the AN junction to hold the pressurized fuel, which it has done for the military aviation community, the commercial aviation community, and other high performance/pressure fluid handling systems for decades. This re the seal on the counterfeit items The end of the threaded hole for the AN fitting has an enlarged chamfer on it so the O ring can squash into it. Notice the fitting will butt up against the face of the rail. Our production parts do not do this with or without an O ring. Allegedly, this 'modification' was to stop leaks with our kits. We don't believe this to be true. The 'modification' is more likely because the counterfeit rails do not have a proper AN fitting port and the O ring is required as the primary seal. From what we've seen on the parts we have and from pictures depicting worse on TwinTurbo.NET of other counterfeits from the same source, it would be impossible for the AN fitting to seal per AN specifications. On top of this, the enlarged chamfer faces have machine tool marks on them and has already nicked at least one of the O rings in the kit we have, weakening it. Also, the pre assembled kits have teflon tape on the included AN fittings. This is a universally bad practice with fuel system fittings of any kind and ineffective with straight AN fitting threads.
Theres a difference between "one stuff up" and fraud. Coz has a very good track record for the most part, my own dealings with him have been good, but he's certainly no saint. And whilst him messing up an order is forgivable, this was a flat out lie/fraud to all of his customers (and another business that were ment to be his friends). Having said that I'll probably still use him simply because there isnt that much competition in the zed market. Also, he might be paying extra attention to tt.net because the owners of 300degree (who he ripped off) also own tt.net. Just a bit of food for thought...
I just had a look at all the AN style fittings and equipment I have here. There is NO control of the depth on almost all the fittings and where they screw in. Leaving the Oring as primary seal. The Screw in fittings I have which comply with AN specs dont reply on a tapered alloy receiver to seal off the fitting. Almost all use an Oring. I will try to take some pics later.
Here is a pic of an AN-10 fitting on my fuel rail. See it has a tapered seal which mates up with an AN-10 fitting to seal off fuel leakage. This is what 300degree must have machined into the end of the fuel rail. Now have a look at the USD $500 Aeromotive fuel pump I bought. See how it has a straight oring seal just like COZ used on his rails. You can sort of see it even has a rebate machined in just like COZ did. I can assure you both are valid AN spec usages of the fittings. As I said I wouldnt panic about this. In fact IMO the coz ones are FINE.
I am with Tecktrader on this, I think the coz rails will be fine and may even provide a better seal than the 300deg. What I dont understand is how alot of people here have been sold these rails under the 300deg brandname and recieved imitation rails. This has come to light but most people who received them are happy about this as the service he has provided is good and the part looks ok. He didnt substitute brand x for brand y because of availability or whatever, he knowingly supplied knock offs at full price of genuine. This isnt a mistake, it is fraud. I understand the service is good, easy to deal with, willing to correct issues etc. But he sold knock offs under the genuine brandname, this is not on in any industry. If I had a heap of parts in my engine from coz, I would be starting to wonder what is actually in it, are they really Eagle's, CP's, Nismo's etc. As has been said earlier, you pay the money for brand x because it has the track record to justify in your mind the cost. You dont pay for that brand and get product "alleged" to be it. It either is or isnt. Did you get what you paid for? No. It is simply very poor buisiness ethics. Coffins are closed one nail at a time, and this probably isnt the first nail if tt.net is anything to go by. Good on coz for giving for having a go at his own line of parts, but you cant sell them under some one elses name.
talk 2 simon from coz direct. there is no need 2 air dirty laundry on public forums.. it is a shock i have the "fakle rails" when i recieved them i marvelled at there machining and build.. now they turn out 2 be fake.. i have never had a leak from the rail. only poorly designed fittings... mine dont leak at all.. talk 2 simon he is a good bloke and im sure he will exchange them ..
The authentic rails do not require o-rings. Only the old style had them. The new style does not because they are not necessary. The AN fitting IS the seal. The tests showed that an o-ring did not properly seal against the kind of pressure in the rails.
I know what you are saying. My point is that the Oring seal is widely used by many many manufacturers as evidenced by the fuel pump and more than half the other hi end fuel system products I have here for the racing car. The only other issue may be that the machinig on the Coz rails isnt quite right to seal properly. I havent seen them so dont know. My point is that the way they seal is widely used.
yes you ned to contact coz, unfortunantly i think you pay for freight BACK to him, tho im sure if you kick up a big enough stink he will re-imburse...
Coz sends replacements to me at his expense once numbers are finalised, you return your old one to him at your expense via the cheapest means.
What was the final go with this? Is anyone even bothering? Are the copies safe to use asuming we get our own AN lines made up?
I am not going to swap over, whatever rails I have work just fine. Anyone else from group buy is welcome to though
Not really, if the original design wasn't patented knock offs can be made so long as the original name is not used (cause that is copyright).
ive been using the copies now for 8 months or more. no dramas. coz seems 2 think that his version isnt half bad. and i agree
