Will an SR20 fan fit a 300ZX?

I've given you my opinion on what I have seen so far, I have 12yrs experience in the aircraft industry and qualified in aircraft power plant overhaul and serving, airframe repairs and overhaul etc and done enough reading and studying about developments in the aircraft industry over the years to know when someone claims to be shifting 60% more air from the same power source they are talking shit.

Knock yourselves out, go buy one of these magic fans and fit it thinking you are getting something for nothing in your cooling system.
Take a stock fan and the new fan to Qantas & have it given to the most senior engineer you can talk to and ask him/her for their opinion, explain to them that this fan will move 60% more air but use the same thermostatic viscous clutch to drive it. I'd stand back a little when you do that, sometimes a little spit comes out when people laugh really hard.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news guys but there is NO WAY you can shift 60% more air using the stock fan clutch and pulleys etc, for a given amount of HP you can only create a given amount of thrust. If Nissans OEM fan was was horrendously inefficient then there might be a chance but quite frankly that's not the case.

Go ahead assume I am the bad guy and that I'm just being nasty or trying to be a know it all, I'm sure that will make the fan work just like you want :rofl:

 

You're missing one very big question here mungyz, what did Nissan design its fan for? Was it to move enough air to cool the car as quietly as possible or was it to move the most amount of air? Why did the VG not come out with 500rwhp from the factory? We all know it is possible.

Have there ever been any improvements in air flow? Whether it be from a fan or from something such as a turbocharger? The concept is pretty similar.

You've also failed to take into account an increase in diameter, another assumption of yours.

One of the engineers from the engineering firm said they spent 2 years working on the design of the VE commodore 6 cylinder engine mounts to reduce in cabin noise, it was apparently something that was on the top of their list of wants from the mounts.

You mention that the no one has seen over a 5% increase in efficiency yet in your first post you said that a 20% increase could be plausible?

 

I here what you're saying and that's fine. We've now sold just under 300 of these fans and testimonials have already started flooding in.

The fans are manufactured in China by a plastic factory that specifically makes clutch fans. We ran some FEA on the design prior to production and the physical loads on the fins are lower than the factory unit.

I absolutely guarantee that anyone that installs this fan will instantly notice a massive difference. I'm sure that anyone that installs the fan will be just as pleased with the results as I was when I installed the fan.

 

One more thing, did you know that the RB25 clutch fan pulls around 30% more air than the SR20 clutch fan. Or is that impossible? Maybe all the people over the years that have done this upgrade were wrong?

 

OK so you want to play it this way then, that's fine.

You can't increase the diameter as it's in a fan shroud and there isn't the room for a substantial increase in diameter.

The 5% was in reference to aircraft propeller similar to the size and power used by the Wright brothers, the 20% was in reference to the fan you are selling.

The Rb25 uses a different viscous coupling to the SR20.

If you increase the pitch of the blades (as you have) you increase the torque required to drive it as the same speed, if you can't provide the torque the fan will turn slower.

We've covered noise already and you seem to be pretty good at making it (by your own admission) with your fan.

What torque and RPM are required to drive your fan at the claimed 60% better airflow than the OEM item?

What is the peak torque offered by the fan clutch at maximum engagement?

What is the maximum RPM of the stock fan at peak engine RPM and peak clutch engagement with the vehicle stationary (IE no forward airspeed).

What is the peak CFM of your fan when driven by the standard OEM drive system? What is the peak CFM of the factory when driven by the standard OEM drive system.

Better yet put you product where you mouth is and send one over here, I will pass it on to some good friends in the aircraft industry, one of them designs aircraft for a living, I will gather their opinion of your 60% claim.
I will also put the fan to test by driving both yours and a stock fan at a given speed in a shrouded set up and record both the air flow and the torque required to drive both.

 

I'm keen to be your guinea pig for this if your interested, I have a clutch spare here so I can confirm fitment. If it does fit I'll report back .

 

The fan was increased 15mm's in diameter. Your assumption was incorrect.

The RB25 does indeed use a different clutch to the SR20. So does the 30% increase exist in an improvement in the clutch design? Or is it the 5% improvement in the fan and 25% increase in the clutch?

Rather than sending you a free product like you've suggested and "put my product where my mouth is" I instead put my "money where my mouth is" and invested over 25k.

As someone above has mentioned, working in the aircraft industry putting motors back together doesn't exactly make you qualified to be calling my product poorly engineered or my claims to be fraudulent. Iddavid has a clutch fan in the mail and he will confirm fitment on the Z32's.

This is an engineered (by someone qualified in this field) product, it has been tested and it has been installed on many cars already with many many great testimonials.

You can say what ever you like as these are selling and people are loving them.

Is your cup half full or half empty?

 

I said no room for a substantial increase in diameter, there isn't and you have not added a substantial amount - certainly nothing that will help gaining the outrageous 60% you are claiming.

As I have said a few times (you seem to ignore the crucial fact) you can only shift so much air with a given amount of power, the fan clutch is what is providing that power. You can't get something for nothing, the design changes you have made WILL NOT create 60% more air flow.

Fine PM me with payment details and I will buy one of you fans - so long as you have a money back guaranty it will do exactly as you say it will.

Your not the first person to make the mistake in thinking aircraft engineers are not required to understand how the equipment they work on operates.
And your not the first person to assume I haven't studied over and above what was required for my job because I enjoyed gaining the knowledge and learning something.

I really don't care how much you spent on producing these, it wont make it do what what you say it does.

So what if people are fitting the fans and are happy, I've already said there may be SOME improvement - I was generous and gave you a plausible 20%

The fact still remains your figure of 60% more air flow is false and you have not provided ANY information or prove to say otherwise, for someone who spent $25K on a product you are falling well short on backing up the claims you make with proof and facts.

Would you buy a new prop for your boat because the salesmen tells you it will make your 100HP engine perform like a 160hp engine and then he gives you some figures on fuel consumption to back it up? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

What an insult to the community.

 

I am not engaging any further with you. I have told you under what conditions, and how this data was measured and they showed an increase of 60%. It's as simple as that. You are calling me a liar, and that's fine as you don't seem like the sort of guy that I would be friends with anyways (I'll be honest, you came across as a tool).

People can make up their own minds. I can show you changes in AOA and all sorts of graphs that are in the 12 page engineers report but I really don't have time to discuss this and I have no doubt that you'll some how pick something up and try and argue it. The qualifications of the engineer that designed this product allows him to make such a report and you've openly said that you don't have this qualification and that you are NOT qualified. What makes you think that you know more than the engineer that designed this fan?

Again, testimonials from customers are flying in. Try one out for yourself, you can purchase at the intro price of $59 via our website at www.gktech.com.au

Just to sum it up, so far you've said that I'm an insult to the community, my statements are fraudulent and the product is engineered poorly. I'm not sure what you have provided to the community however I have invested over 200k into product development for the S and R-chassis (and some parts do fit the Z's) in the past 12 months alone with a further 200k+ scheduled for this year. I invest and will continue to invest every cent profit the business makes into product development for atleast the next 12-18 months.

So who are you and what have you done that gives you the right to call someone an insult to the community?

 

Hang on just one minute there Mr

I said "what an insult to the community" I DID NOT say "you are an insult to the community"

I also said earlier you may not even know what you are claiming is incorrect.

I also said a customer of mine asked about your product and I gave my opinion based on my education, you have then proceeded to try and belittle my input etc.

You have now called me a tool - well I would consider someone who is selling a product and making a claim that is simply impossible and untrue a tool but hey what ever!

You can try and pretend to be a big shot all you like, it wont make your fan shift 60% more air than the stock one.
I've offered to test it for you and would be more than happy to complement it on what ever gains it might have - real testing showing toque requirement at given RPM (power) and air flow etc.
Who I am and what I do is not the point, you have made a claim that is utter BS and you have been called on it, the way forward is to test the unit CORRECTLY and get some ACCURATE results out there instead of BS.

 

I personally held the device which gave the final numbers and if there was only a slight gain I'm sure that I wouldn't have felt a massive difference just with my bare hand in front of the radiator (which married up with what the calibrated device was telling me).

I haven't tried to belittle your input, from your first post you've called it BS and said my claims were fraudulent.

Have a re-read of your posts and tell me if you don't agree that "you come across as a tool".

I'm not trying to pretend to be a big shot at all. This business is a hobby and I thoroughly enjoy most days. I don't enjoy people questioning my credibility as I pride myself on what I do and the products that I release. They're not always perfect and there can always be improvement but I'm not ignorant to my way being the best way either.

To go back on topic, purchase a fan through the website at $59 + shipping and you can see the gains for yourself. I'm certainly not going to send you a fan at my cost as you haven't demonstrated any qualifications in your posts. You honestly just seem like a rambling fool that knows a little about a lot (I'll be the first to admit that you probably know more about fans than I do but I don't need to know about this). We didn't test for RPM Vs CFM curves or anything like that as it wasn't relevant to me. What I was looking for in this design was an outright increase in CFM which is exactly what the engineering firm contracted to design the fan have done and I'm very pleased with the results.

Don't believe my word? That's fine, don't buy the fan. There are near 300 people that have purchased a fan so far and they're already spreading the word of how happy they are with their purchase.

You not buying the fan doesn't effect me in the slightest, what does effect me is all the BS that you're talking on here that is just simply untrue

 

Ah, arguing semantics. The last refuge of the keyboard warrior.

 

The RB25 fan on an SR20 offers around a 30% so the claims really aren't that outrageous.

Feel free to purchase via the website. I have no doubt in my mind that you'll be very pleased with the results. If I wasn't happy with the results I wouldn't have put them into production (we initially printed a 3d sample of the design to test prior to having the moulds made)

Seriously, I have no doubt that anyone that purchases one of these fans will be over the moon. It's a bold claim but I'm very happy with the results.

 

Don't mean to discredit your work, as I said before I'm a fan (lol), but from your statement that a 30% increase can be had by using an RB25 fan, doesn't that point to the SR20 fan being horribly inefficient?

 

It's not semantics at all.

What I said is VERY different to what was claimed I said.

It is an insult to everyones intelligence here to try and spin us the line that this fan will move 60% more air than the SR20 unit when using the same clutch etc to drive it.

I DID NOT say this guy himself is an insult to the community.

If you want to go calling me a keyboard warrior for trying to look out for the community then good luck to you.

 

You can't just hold a meter in the engine bay and grab a number from it then tell everyone the fan shifts 60% more air without knowing the RPM or the % engagement of the clutch driving it.
That's a useless inaccurate waste of time and leads to nothing but arguments OBVIOUSLY!

With the angle of attack you have on those blades they could very well be stalled and simply spinning the air around in circles within the fan shroud giving the impression of a good job due to the high velocity but in fact doing a crap job due to the vector (direction) of the flow.

If you have not tested the fan with a known power input and compared CFM to the stock fan at the same power input then you are pulling figures from your ass and talking BS.

How do I know this? hundreds of engine test runs after servicing aircraft and using readings from gauges etc to ensure the engine is performing as it should, RPM, torque, air density, MAP etc all factored in to ensure everything is correct.
Not some pissy little meter behind the prop or a hand to feel the breeze :rofl:
Hours and hours spent overhauling propellers and engines, hours and hours spent learning how it all works to pass exams to show I know what I am talking about.

I don't believe you and I am advising others not to, until you test the fan correctly and produce accurate numbers I will continue to do so.

Go ahead make it out that I am the bad guy, you are the one selling something you don't fully understand and trying to shoot down people who point out your errors.