Great I?m with you objective as long as factual. New concept for some I know. Back to topic. Are there any dyno tests comparing 3 inch non turbulence to 3 inch bell mouth. Some here accept this to be fact with no proof, but not the other way?? We have some solid indirect fact, but also sound basis adn as mentioned Nismo do it this way. Also reminder UAS ones have DIVIDERS similar to the Nismo ones. Also a lot of people say they will buy, and how many and problem is we do tests and prove it and does not pay as most people just talk. No problem with this just human nature and I understand and accept this frustration part of life and business. I am not going to run off spending lots of money doing tests if not viable though as I have done lots of this in the past and do more than most but hard to make a dollar this way. I am an enthusiast but have to keep a handle on things in business.
All I am saying is beware the trodden path. As John has suggested, the line is not crossed. As I have mentioned, the debate and information is wonderful. I'd hate to see the thread muzzled if the line is crossed, that's all.
id like 2 say im sorry if i came off being harshe. at the end of the day we all own zeds and all want cars that perform and handle well. UAS are a supporter of the zed and the vg30dett. i think this thread should be locked and once uas have finalized there new dumps publish the results and then the individual can make there mind up. i do personally owe many thanks to uas and also rob260 and there is no point in getting into a shitfight about who develops products or which is better. admin/mods lock this thread as i dont believe there is anything positive will result from it.
Just because its how NISMO do it doesn't also mean its the best either. This whole thread has been blown way out of proportion. It comes down to this. We want to see the comparasin of the UAS bellmouth with the SZ 3" divorced dumps. E.g. bellmouth vs a decent split style. What we don't like to see is the instant dumping on other styles of dump without backing it up. Sure you might be right that bellmouth are better and increase spool and do all the wonderful things that split flange do as well as improve top end but we don't know yet.
I think it should only be locked if the original poster requests it. As Greg has said there has been alot o fgood information and no guidelines have been broken
I reckon if the guidelines prevent constructive debates such as this one, then it's the guidelines that need to go Nothing wrong with this kind of thread, aren't we all adults here?
then you shouldnt need me to point out that UAS have not been bagged out just becasue they have released a new product
well WATZED said, "How do they do all this with no workshop" ive heard that you have outsourced the manufacture of the 3" bell mouth dumps to a exhaust shop.... how does this make you any better than SZ, who said UAS claimed to be better than SZ?
you're mixing up quotes . It was unique zed who first said how do they do it without a workshop . But i understand your point that this thread should not be a competition between UAS and SZ.
Info There has been some good info here and some sweeping statements to. I would be nice to stick to facts. UAS bell muth
Rollin' you talk to much crap. Go re-paint your BMW And Greg no is putting up UAS infomercial here, so why dont you put that infrictionator ego away for this thread. I think UAS is the best workshop for our ZEDS!! and because of UAS people respect the zed that much more. Especially in Sydney and especially with the skyline boyz who seen the stock car and appreciate the zed so much. John you keep doing what your doing mate and rob260 thanks for always putting up info up for us to learn. And i have no doubt you will have the most if the one of the most powerful zeds in the whole country. Our forum should support UAS as much as we can and work together to get prices lower and more competitive. Rather then putting them down and choosing overseas workshops who can obviously give better prices etc due to the US having 10X our population, hence more zeds Keep up the good work guys
Infomercial and facts warning inside That last post I hit the send button by accident then ran out of time to edit it, here is the rest of it. I hope I have had people think and challenge some of the info and marketing on the web? I guess to answer Nigel's question, I often wonder why people get aggressive. I don't cop bull dust too well and probably rub some the wrong way. At UAS we do rock the boat a bit and challenge things as we don't go with the flow sometimes. Example being we got the similar treatment and controversy from quite a few on the forum a few years back when we argued that our FMIC is better than corner mount intercoolers. Even got posted on TwinTurbo.net in USA that we thought so. http://twinturbo.net/nissan/300zx/forums/general/view/1466936/Side-mount-vs-front-mount-debate.html Guess what FMIC and my design is everywhere now and everyone copied similar or exact same in USA, and China mass produced. UAS dump and engine pipe in one and not just bell mouth but also WITH internal divider that seems to be missed when discussing comparisons. If doing cost comparison need to recognise that it is not apples for apples re cost. Again to clarify if you buy a dump pipe you still have to have two engine pipes made to join to the cats. If we made the same length which could be another simple option and they would probably be a third cheaper if not more. The problem is as mentioned these are Aussie made and low production run and very small margin in them. Also ours follows the tunnel and also goes around the starter motor, sitting up tight in the tunnel requiring multiple bends. Lastly a few people here have requested a comparison before you buy. If there were at least ten serious buyers or more in the short term, it might be viable, but I doubt there is. We do a lot of testing at the track and on dyno but it takes a fair bit of time and money, keep in mind we are constantly making and designing products and testing products we buy form suppliers and can't do it all. The fact of the matter is what is the potential market place. How many zed in Australia to start with have 350rkw or more. As in how many have 5 bolt T28 turbo's with strong engine and other bits requiring big flow dump and engine pipes?? Not talk about it actually have or about to do? Not many. Twin 3 inch dump and engine pipes are over kill for 4 bolt turbo's, even with bigger ball bearing cores. Another story if we produce in twin 2.5 inch and maybe get mass produced OS, which we may do. The difference is going to be very small anyway. On a Skyline with around 240 rwkw we saw a difference of about 6 rwkw increase, which is something. We produced these mainly as mentioned for big hp and to have the ultimate for flow, weight reduction, clearance and ease of fitting, as nothing else required to bolt up to the cats. Although these would need increasing to 3 inch or down to 2.5 inch cats if that is what you have and don't want to change. It becomes more of a problem and theory, and as found on the dyno, with bigger turbo's and larger exhaust wheels shooting into a smaller hole if using divorce pipes. The overall catching area for gasses is considerably smaller with divorce pipes. Not a problem with small turbo's. Yes Nismo know what they are doing, although not cheap, their products are high quality and usually the best for performance. Not saying there products can't be improved on, it is pretty hard though. Infomercial warning yet informative and answering a false statement. It has been mentioned on this thread that Specialty Z has been around longer than us and built more hp engines etc. With no workshop though, but hey it sounds good. Anyway when I started importing and modifying zed in 1995 I went to USA several times and visited the only other company back then doing anything with zeds, other than sort of Nissan Motorsports, and that was Stillen. There was a body kit company who had a catalogue which I still have somewhere called Kaminari. There really was no one else in the game anywhere in USA. We started our website back in 98 when there were very few websites and virtually none in the car game. Much easier to do business now. I went there and was surprised to find my small showroom was bigger than theirs, although their operation overall was bigger. You would be surprised to know that some of these companies with big websites are a computer at home and just send stuff out of their garage and basically resell products.
Definately not as controversial as the water injection debate John, where is Zisluv when you need him. When I go for a set of larger turbos for that extra 50kw or so, I'll be in for a set of bell mouths.
Go back and re-read my last post. This is not an attack on UAS, I buy stuff from John just like everybody else. Guidelines are there for a reason, although not every "rule" will suit every one at "all" times. As I have also said, The discussion/debate is great. I am not Anti-UAS, right click john's sig pic and see where it is hosted I treat everyone fairly here on this place
Interesting debate. On the race Z I have 3" single dump pipes with internal dividers (similar to the bell mouth concept) and on the street Z I have a set of SZ 3" splits. I think the key point here is really the 3" concept. Comparing a 3" dump pipe to a 2.5" pipe is not valid, seems clear that at high HP levels the 3" is much better. The real question is whether splits are better than singles. There seems no doubt that internal dividers are better. The race Z exhaust was built a number of years ago and I would hazard my opinion that a single pipe is old style, while the newer design split pipes are proven to make more horsepower. Its hard to compare the two cars on the dyno as the race Z only has stock rods so we can't turn up the boost as high as the street car. Also the race Z has a NA rear end so spools and acclerates faster. Both make over 400rwkw, so either way there is no real limitation. Either way is an improvement. I have proved that the SZ splits are good for 490rwkw on C16 on a fresh engine. However given the choice I like the design of the new SZ expansion pipes, this seems to follow all the logic and research I have done on turbo spool and exhaust flow. Makes sense to keep the wastegate and the turbo exhaust flows as seperated for as long as possible to avoid turbulance. As John said earlier so the expansion pipe concept makes sense and if I was going to replace either this would be my choice. I agree with John that Stillen used to be the only place to get Z parts, but in my dealings with SZ, they are professional and experienced and really know their Z's. Sure they are a small business but definately specialists and their products are excellent quality. Well thats my 10c worth, if you like I can overlay the two cars dynos so you can compare 3" dumps with splits but as I said as the cars are so different it won't really give an accurate comparasion. Haha BTW the Race Z has a front mount intercooler while the Street Z has two stillen side mounts. So again both seem to work to make good power.
Ditto. The more Aussie made products for Zeds the better. But it's crucial that they are competitively priced with the competing oversea's products. Otherwise we all will quite easily go elsewhere... Personally, I would rather keep our money in Australia rather than sending it out all the time. But again, at the end of the day people will always go with value for money. I also think it's good that we have people in Australia who put the time and effort into R&D for our cars rather than us leaving it up to the American's all the time. But John, you mentioned this product is geared towards people running 5 Bolt Turbo's with high end HP in mind. Like you said, that market over here is rather small right now. Perhaps spending more time and R&D on the mainstream Zed market will be more worth your while in the long run. In a business sense of course. Just a thought. Cheers Rob.
This is starting to sound like a Specialty Zed Infomercial.:rolleyes2: It is also reminiscent of a 5 yr old campaign of UAS bashing which strangely also started off in WA(and ultimately got two members banned). Nothing much has changed.
