odd no start problems

Discussion in 'Technical' started by ProckyZ89, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. ProckyZ89

    ProckyZ89 Senior Member

    so the zed seemingly doesn't want to start again.

    This problem has only really shown itself since the colder weather hit.

    battery was initial suspect so replaced and that worked for a while.
    but due to the car only moving once every 20-30 days etc. the battery needs a bit of a charge every so often.
    Static volts=12.85
    cranking volts =10.2-10.5

    since then it seems to not want to start again.

    the good bits
    *fuel pump primes at on
    *car does turn over (starter works)
    *injectors click
    *spark present as tested by removing CP1 and inserting a spare plug

    Where I am currently looking is
    *remove all my own plugs, clean, inspect and see spark compared to test plug (weak spark perhaps)

    NOTE: I have always had cold start issues as a few may recall from cruise meet ups when we went to leave that took 3-8 seconds cranking to start.
  2. WazTTed

    WazTTed Grease Monkey

    if the ecu reads under 10v pretty sure it it wont start !!
  3. michaelZ

    michaelZ New Member

    Is there enough petrol in the tank?

    I do not mean to be rude but it happened to me because I hardly use my car and forgot when I last put petrol in my car so I thought the obvious thing is to check if there is enough fuel in the tank? You seemed to have checked everything else.

  4. ProckyZ89

    ProckyZ89 Senior Member

    haha I appreciate the thought towards help :)

    though ive got fuel pressure and injection ;)

    so unless my mystical spare fuel tank has decided to chip in fuel :p
    I think were set haha :)
    but I have done the no fuel one before.
  5. black baz

    black baz black 'n blue Bazemy

    Methinks both your static and cranking volts are too low .....

    My Zed gets limited use on mostly short, very short trips, 3-4 times a week .... consequently, I charge my beastie to full charge every 3-4 weeks.

    EDIT: on second thoughts your static volts may be just OK .. but cranking is suspect.
  6. AndyMac

    AndyMac Better than you

    Buy a trickle charger if you're not driving it...all mine are on trickle charges for their monthly turn overs.

  7. michaelZ

    michaelZ New Member

    Try this.

    On the odd chance that the too low volts issue is caused by a shoddy earth connection, a test would be to use one jumper lead and connect the battery NEGATIVE terminal to the body of the car using the jumper lead and see if that improves things.

    I did this on a car that had the battery relocated to the boot and the jumper test confirmed a dodgy earth connection This person also spent $400 on a calcium battery only to find it was only an earth problem.

    Make Sure you only connect the Battery NEGATIVE to the body.

  8. ProckyZ89

    ProckyZ89 Senior Member

    It was a mix or "low voltage" then flooding the engine, but also a excessively rich cold start tune
  9. MagicMike

    MagicMike Moderator Staff Member

    So it's fixed? Or weather just got warmer? lol
  10. ProckyZ89

    ProckyZ89 Senior Member

    Its not fixed but its diagnosed.
    battery is charged now and heating the CTS plug to around 30 degrees (measured ECU TALK so ECU's live data) and it starts very easily from cold
  11. AndyMac

    AndyMac Better than you

    Ahhh, I had this problem when I converted to E85, but the opposite. I leaned out the cold start % increase on the map, don't ask why, I can't remember, but it made it a dog to start cold. Cranking, cranking, cranking, cranking...**** me that was a pain in the ass.


    I have seriously had not one problem starting on E 85
    Cold weather ,2 weeks in between start ..first Kick every time.

    only time it won't wouldn't start is when battery volt was low as the haltech needs over 11.something.
  13. AndyMac

    AndyMac Better than you

    Yeah, mine was purely on me leaning out the cold start enrichment. I moved it back to 5% and it was 2 crank fires every time.
  14. East Coast Z

    East Coast Z Well-Known Member

    Re: low voltage

    Andrew, it is unlikely your issue relates to low voltage.
    A fully charged battery will display 12.7VDC.
    You had 12.85VDC so it would have had what they call surface charge voltage, caused by recharging.
    It is also common to see voltages around the 10.0VDC figure when cranking.
  15. ProckyZ89

    ProckyZ89 Senior Member

    When tested it was already after an initial failed start attempt 3 times

    The engine could have been flooded so despite them being recharged was fueled to much for me to start it.
  16. ProckyZ89

    ProckyZ89 Senior Member

    Follow up*

    After many years, I now know exactly what the problem was.

    So it turned out I had no spark or power to the coil packs
    Following the wiring diagram back, this lead me to the EGI relay and understanding the ecu function in activating this.

    To cut a long story short,
    Normal operation
    At key ON / start, the ecu is meant to send a ground signal via orange wire to the egi relay which is also shared via the eccs.
    This opens the relay allowing 12v power to the coils through via the black wire.

    My problem
    The ecu appeared to not send the ground signal, internal switch on factory board perhaps damaged.

    Temporary solution
    I created a relay system where in I bypassed the ecu grounding so at key ON it opened the relay to ground to allow power to coils as per normal.

    This issue is now completely resolved and proves my initial belief as when the Link G4 Ecu was installed we removed the relay I wired in. The car now starts perfectly as per normal operation.
  17. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    Didn’t this occur because you shorted the ignition driver when relocating the fuse box?
  18. ProckyZ89

    ProckyZ89 Senior Member

    I’m not going to say it couldn’t have as being 4 years ago nearly I legit can’t remember however I did have the battery disconnected when rewiring it all so I don’t think so for some reason.

    Still plausible though,
    Was just following up with symptoms, solution/repair.

    Confirmation of problem and it’s fixed incase anyone else experiences the issue

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