Lightened pulleys etc

make the ross balancers in silver or red JP!

 

and cheaper and ill take one as well

 

Silver is easy and will work same as blue one, lol. Cheaper is harder, as Aussie labour and much more involved than a C & C machined, mass produced, one peice pulley.
Also wondering how many just bolted the alloy pulleys on, without at least balancing them? We found more than a few grams out of balance, which only adds to the vibration. Not only do these aloy pulley's not have rubber to absorb resonance, but they are way too light. Being around 840 grams compared to factory around 6.2 kg. ATI in USA make high performance harmonic balancers ro dampeners. They make two models, from memory one for up to 600 hp and one for a 1000hp plus. THe 1000hp version is heavier, to dampen the added vibration with higher hp. Some they make heavier than stock, as Ross balancers do, for big hp GTR's, which yes have more need for this.

A good point of the small alloy pulleys, is that they slow everything down, being under driven, which is very good for high reving high performance motors, and even better if a track car.

 

Totally agree with you JP about the resonance, installed a red alloy 1 back in the day (6 years ago) when everyone was getting those. Been meaning to get a ross one if in silver coz the red theme I got going on in the engine bay, think the stock balancer got thrown in the rubbish bin when moving houses. Give us a holler when produced in silver JP.

 

ok ,ill seltle for silver then ,blue just doesnt cut it in a chrome/polished engine bay on a black zed im afraid

 

Doesnt the ross have markings on it? white on red is okay, but white on silver might be a problem. Unless you go with a darker foreground

 

Group buy in silver JP?

 

Yes the UAS Ross racing balancer has 360 degree markings for cam timing, as well as the necessary ignition timing marks. Silver is a safer more universal colour.

 

I'll be interested if you make the ross balancer the same size as the alloy ones.

 

I guess we will be splitting hairs as we have our own preferences and experiences . No failures from the hundreds of direct installs on high hp builds from 450 - 600 whp street driven rides (on 94 pump). Or the hundreds of sales and installs in the US.

As for falling for a sales guy pitch I hold a Red-Seal License across Canada which takes about 5 yrs to attain in order to call yourself a 'Certified Technician' This is on top of my Hons Degree (5 yr) from University of Toronto and a part time Technical Editorial (contributory) role with PAS Magazine So a sales guy better have a really good pitch . Needless to say I do my research and test products out on our corporate Z before giving them a nod and use on clients cars. To date no evidence first hand of failures in Canada or our contacts in the USA.

So as stated I am just passing along our 'first hand experiences' with solid pulleys from their uses on the 300ZX (VG30), 350Z, 370Z and of course the
R35 GTR which we've installed directly with zero issues. As for the inline 6 motors I would not use one due to the engines inherent design which vibration and oil sarvation are achilles heels in high revving high hp applications.

We'll agree to disagree no probs

P.S. I hope you replaced the Eurethane Engine Mounts with OEM? We had everal of these fail including our corporate cars due to deterioration in short order. PITA job with the engine in Our z was pushing over 550 rwhp on pump (old set-up) for one short season when the engine dipped on one side due to a failed mount.

Regards,

Vuk@AMS
www.amszstore.com

 

i wonder if the one you got was just some cheap piece of junk or something, is that possible? or possibly something else was going on concurrently to cause/contribute to the problem?

i did a ton of research on these things before putting one in my Z. while people had some varying opinions on them (everyone on the internet seems to be a self-professed expert, even with no mechanical/automotive background whatsoever), i couldn't find a shred of factual evidence to support the theory that the pulley alone causes problems. some of the issues i've heard described in this thread can be attributed to other things, but it's alway seems easy to blame the pulley.

i installed a crank pulley (and the entire kit finally) on my 520rwhp Z and have had zero issues in any department since doing so. everyone i know with everything from a nearly stock 222hp NA Z to people with 650-750rwhp Zs have these things on their cars with zero issues. these cars are dragged, run on road courses, and have driven tens of thousands of miles on the streets/highways each year going to shows and events all across north america. i've talked to thousands of people across north america at all these events, and i have yet to have one person be able to provide factual evidence illustrating that the pulley was solely to blame for any issues they might have encountered (and the issues have been almost nil at that).

i can't comment on what's going on down under, but that's my personal experience in north america. i wouldn't hesitate for a second to put a pulley on my car if it came from a reputable manufacturer. don't believe the (negative) hype.

 

It's weird like that. I bought my UR UDP off a guy here that had vibration issues. I had absolutely no problem with it.

 

Regardless of who made it. It was balanced before it was fitted and was perfect and ran true.

 

Not sure what Noltec urethane engine mounts has got to do with anything? We found out they were crap also.

In all your training did they not cover harmonic balancers? Over here it is basics in being a basic mechanic. The question is still there, being what purpose or gain? Other than being under driven, which I agree for track cars and high performance cars is good. But then Pexzed has sold a heap of smaller water pump pulleys to counteract for road cars. You have got to admit though nowhere does anyone have dyno reading to prove they do anything, from being lighter and many have commented including this thread that they noticed vibration after putting one on and for what, looks, which for most is a biggy I know, but we are talking about side effects v performance?

Funny thing is you say you would not use a alloy crank pulley on a GTR. Why not if no issues and internally balanced? If nothing else changed what is the problem? You answered it yourself, added vibration, which is same on a 300ZX only they get away with it to a point. Also I don't have a degree but talk to lots of motorsport engineers and mechanical engineers, engine machine shops, about this and many other matters, I suggest you do the same before misleading people, with false information. I have also tried pretty much all the pulllies and sizes on the market on my race car. Also fitted many and experienced this vibration in some cars. I have also had all types tested and balanced, have you?

 

Once again we are splitting hairs based on predisposed views and or dispositions - whether they are a result of theory or first hand accounts.

I will state again I have seen 'zero' first hand proof to support increased wear in a Z32, Z33, Z34 or R35 (GTR) engine - we have installed pulleys on all these. This includes engines that have been torn down multiple times inluding our corporate Z32's motor (total of 5 times in as many years for various tweaks). No proof of increased bearing wear. For anyone that has seen what we do to our personal car they will know that we drive it like we stole it on the street and track with some 550 or so whp on pump. Some of our clients are as crazy as we are

The R32 is an Inline-6 which is prone to vibration at higher RPM's that the V motors do not experience due to their design - models stated above. This is true even with the stock pulley on the R32's.

Yes, we covered harmonic balancers which are used in old-school un-balanced domestic engines for the most part (in our North American market anyhow). The pulleys have the harmonic balancer as part of the balancing process.

Plenty of dynoes stateside showing gains in power as well in all these applications. All it takes is some research

I would argue that we have installed and sold as many pulleys as there are Z's down under or more with not a single failure or detrimental side-effect since the 90's. Once again this is our first hand account of these pulleys

The engine mounts I noticed in the pic and it reminded me of the PITA jobs it has caused us so I thought I'd comment on them.

I think we covered our opposing points already a couple times so no more need for broken records. I agree that we disagree based on our 'first hand' accounts with these engines

Regards,

Vuk@AM
www.amszstore.com

 

This is one of the first links I found within a minute

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0403tur_nissan_350z_unorthodox_pulley_set/index.html

Plenty of documented gains on the motors I stated we have installed these on (Z32/Z33/Z34/R35). One of the biggest I've seen is 20RWHP within a certain RPM on the R35 (2009) using our balanced OEM sized lightened pulley stateside. This is also online with a little searching on one of the R35 sites in the USA

I would also post my published articles on these but these can be found on our site 'In the Media Section as well'

Once again this is just our experience with them in North America and your direct experience may vary.

Regards,

Vuk@AMS
www.amszstore.com




You have got to admit though nowhere does anyone have dyno reading to prove they do anything, from being lighter and many have commented including this thread that they noticed vibration after putting one on and for what, looks, which for most is a biggy I know, but we are talking about side effects v performance?

 

Found some more pics. See the small dark blue one UR which we balanced as 3 grams out.



ATI balancer on this monster powered 350Z.

 

So did the crank snap as a result or a bearing fail?

Once again I have yet to see first hand evidence of ill effects internally or from a driveability stand-point.

I can post some pics of our R35 and 370Z pulleys which are balanced but we will be heading off topic again.

The debate was 'real' world evidence (first hand) of detrimental effects by using a lightened pulley which is documented to increase power by several sources? I have seen none first hand from the hundreds/thousands installed and used in North America by daily driven and track prepped Z's.


Regards,

Vuk@AMS

 

Maybe Australians have better BUT dyno's, and vibration sensors, as quite a few commented on this thread and others noticing added vibration.

OK some evidence, although a bit ambiguous, especially this dyno reading, as it looks like the graph starts and stops at a different spot? Magazines can be like the internet and if like Australia get paid directly or indirectly to publish blurbs on products. Even if it does make more power, which it could, by less rotating mass, and under driven, on some cars it could lose power or worse, from added vibration, robbing power. Better and safer things to do than this is what I am saying. Like adding a lightened flywheel and other things.

Putting one on a big dollar R35 GTR is risky, even though a V6..



Have any independant dyno readings?

 

i have a UDP on my car ,genuine 359 rwkw all day ..

Ive had this UDP on for about 6, 7 years now , ( think it was from ttz )

rebuilt my engine myself 5 time now in 13 years , never have i had a bottom end bearing problem , in any way , always comes out looking like the day i put them in , no vibration , no nothing ( always replace my bearing )