G'day guys. Well basically im looking at building my TT zed for a street/ drag car. What i want to do is increase the boost to 15 Psi, FMIC, RRFPR, Nistune, find where the optimum torque is and get a stall convertor to suite. the next step would be getting launch control suited to the RPM of the stall convertor to get me onto boost a little before i launch. Where i live in rural SA there is a bloke here who makes Methanol for 1$ a Litre. All the dirt circuit and drag and speedway guys here use it all the time. the question im asking is could i use in my Zed? it wouldnt be straight methanol i was thinking maybe 50-50%. would the stock injectors handle it, as well as the fuel pump and lines? would running methanol give me the oppourtunity to run more boost timing ect? i was also looking at getting methanol sprayers onto my intercooler(s). where i work, managing a carwash i can get all needed jets and chemical feed line ect. could anyone shine some light on methanol for me? Cheers as normal guys :br:
Ok. The ONLY reason you want to use methanol is because your running crazy high comp ratio's (14:1). The stuff is highly corrosive, even as a mix. The entire fuel system needs to be compatible. So you will need. Methanol safe fuel cell. Methanol safe pumps (inboard and external. You'll need to pump ALOT of fuel, stoich for meth is around 6:1) Methanol safe fuel lines Methanol safe fittings Methanol safe injectors. These ONLY come in top feed and start at around 1500cc. The 1500cc INDY injectors are the most readily available. Even running 50/50 mix you will need all of the above. Benefits for running meth are up there. No need for intercooling and super high octane rating and cool burn rate means you can run big boost on big compression numbers. Which means you can really push the HP limits of the 3L engine. Drawbacks. You need to completely rebuild your fuel system...all of it. It's illegal everywhere except the drag strip and speedway. Can't use it on the road, Can't use it on the circuit. And finally...you won't know when your on fire. Your better alternative is to go E85. MUCH easier in comparison and I've written how to do it for the zed numerous times on this forum.
Alternatively, just run a water/meth injection kit pre throttle bodies for cooler intake temps. Allows higher boost levels. Reference water/meth injection kit on google. Worth it if ur running stock turbs and want to run them at high boost but 15psi is hardly high boost...
Cheers guys, The water meth injection sounds pretty good... are the advantages on the set up i will be running worth it? Would the methanol sprayers on the coolers in conjunction with the water/meth set be alright? also coming to tune it, would it be a pain in the arse? would nistune be able to play with the parameters alright?
To be honest, at 15psi it would make a difference but not a hell of a lot as the intake temps wouldn't be too bad. At higher boost levels, say 18psi it would come into play a lot more. Also, depends on the weather... Methanol cools the air thus allowing cooler intake temps. On a hot day, the effects of methanol injection would be more beneficial. But again, depends on the boost you are running. 18-20psi regardless of weather, meth injection would have a great effect and save ur engine from meltdown If getting methanol injection, I'd suggest having a switch installed to turn the meth injection on or off accessible from the cabin. Also have a boost controller with at least 3 settings. Low - 10-12psi, Med - 13-15psi, and drag day 18-20psi with meth injection. Having the car tuned for the highest setting ie: 18-20psi with the methanol kit installed on the tune day would be the way to go. Inform the tuner of the meth injection set-up and explain what you want to achieve. Ensure the tank is topped up whilst its on the dyno and make sure u have a good tuner
Don't spray anything onto your coolers. At best it's wasted effort, at worst your spraying a highly flamable liquid into your engine bay. If your doing anything, just do an injection setup pre TB. Have you thought about E85? As a fuel it negates the need to use injection as it cools the charge effectively on its own. Requires minimal mods (fuel lines and injectors) and is reletively available now. Also, for circuit, water injection is fine, mixed with methanol you'll get told to turn around.
Yeah you will ....... the pain is out of this world..... and you dont burn, you melt ! & add to the list ...... Meth gets past the rings & valve stems very easily and infects the oil, so after a short track run your oil WILL loose some of its viscosity, providing less engine protection...... You'll need to dump oil and filter far more regularily as a result, so factor in the additional 'running costs' to include frequent oil and filter changes. If you dont keep up fresh oil and filters...... then add frequent engine rebuilds into your 'costings' Meth also LOVES water and will absorb it like a sponge, so long term storage of a 44 is not on if your only using small amounts at track days etc, this means 'sharing a drum' with other......... usually = fail We used to get our drums the week we were intending to use it, it was a poor quality about 2 weeks after the drum was opened due to the water absorbsion. Meth...... lot of fun lots of hidden costs dangerous but fun Kingy
I've been running Water/Meth injection in mine for over 12 months now. Although experimental I have seen gains that defiitely justify the mods. Not only can you run more boost but big gains are made from further leaning out of the air/fuel mixture and significant increases in ignition advance. If you run a dedicated system and do away with air to air heat exchangers (intercoolers) then the lag response is also improved due to the elimination of pressure drop over the coolers and reduction of pipe work to pressurise. Depending on the system you run the price can vary from $500 to over $1000 but when you consider how much you could spend on decent intercoolers and 2.5" pipe work, employing dedicated Water Injection is a lot more economical.
So, No intercoolers? water to meth, 20psi of boost on stock turbos? i would obviously need bigger injectors to keep up?. guys.. this is sounding pretty awesome. Im most definatly going to be looking into getting something sorted out in the very close future!
ive been looking into the no intercooler and methanol injection before the throttle body , hard to find any solid info though , id really like to know for example what my intake temps would be if 30% of my total fuel was sprayed as methanol when runnig 12 psi boost with no intercooler .
100% Methanol is the best intercooler , you need to make sure you have only enough to cool the charge air , not add an extra fuel source. I made a Methanol sprayer boost activated spraying before the Turbo's . The smallest locally available Nozzles i used were too large (V6 requires 2) Smaller Nozzles or just one would have worked fine , I got bored with it before i sorted it out . Oh and you end up with a small tank of Methanol behind the front bumper to worry about . [/url][/IMG] [/url][/IMG] [/url][/IMG]
That would be my biggest concern. The stuff is toxic, burns hot and clear, so you could be burning to death inside your car in a crash and no one would know until your face melts off [TIS]
i would like to run alot of methanol to help raise the octane of my fuel and the ecu will control it . what sort of results did you get with yours ?
Intercooler whilste there was bypassed, As a system it worked very well , I had a turbo vl pump and two lpg solenoids/valves switched by a boost activated pressure switch , this turned it all on and off @ 9 psi and maintained constant pump pressure . i had several size hydro misters and worked my way to the smallest available , (still to much) if it were a straight six i could have run one easily .I was contemplating using a two small injectors in place of the Atomising nozzles , but removed it all instead .. Spraying pre turbo (even too much )gives a much denser charge and this yields more boost into the engine with nothing else changed . For more information on Alk injection search http://www.turbobuick.com/ one of the members makes alk injection systems . [/url][/IMG]
so it went up 6 psi from the methanol or you could raise it up that much . did you run 20 psi with out intercoolers ? and got away with 26 psi boost with methanol ?
If you want to experiment with running injection pre turbo, then you can see significant increases in boost as well as cooler charge temps. As the comp wheel compresses the air against the housing it heats, and the air expands. Injecting water or meth into the path of the compressor wheel cools that air, increasing the density. It effectively shifts the compressor map to the right and emulates a larger turbo. The inherent problem with this, and why it's usually advised against, is that if there are any solid fluid droplets left at the time it hits the wheel, it will start to pit and damage the wheel. Remember, that thing is spinning at a gazillion rpm. Because your not injecting into hot air, it is quite difficult to get water to atomise enough that it is safe on the turbo, so you'd really only want to use straight methanol as it's flash point is much lower and will atomise in ambient conditions much easier. Using water/meth injection up in front of the TB's won't see an increase in boost, but it will allow you to run more boost. You can cool your charge temps below ambient, using water in the mix also slows down combustion which will give you higher detonation resistance. It will also steam clean your combustion chambers Get rid of any build up quite effectively. I think your a little fixated on Methanol...don't get me wrong, it's wonderful stuff, but you only really start to get it's advantages with certain types of engine builds, not the kind your talking about. Super high comp, forced induction motors, with mega tight tolerances. And yes, sorry Kingy, your right, you will know your on fire, whether you can see it or not, melting hurts
