Actually if you read the graph There are flow results of the first mike smith set tested on the same heads as every other set was measured so very apples for apples. Based on your advice someone better tell the F1 teams that they are using the wrong metal for their manifolds. I am sure they will blush at their mistake Silly amateurs :wacko: Results dont really speak for themselves. Yes you have a dyno for 450rwkw but didnt you break rods while I was away? Honestly I dont know the story as I checked a PC twice while travelling and only heard second hand, but that would have to say your engine was under too much stress. Perhaps if it flowed better??? Also I understand Mike(nz) with really the same turbos (GT28RS with altered housing) is making 500rwkw without race fuel. He is still using cast iron manifolds but perhaps this is a good example that your engine is not flowing what it could so you still have lots of research to do before claiming to be an expert? Good is the enemy of better remember. Honestly I dont know how you can look at actual flow data and claim they are better than some after market ones. Two sets of heads side by side. One flow tests 30% higher than the other at every degree of lift. Would you insist the lower one is the better buy for more more power?
My guess... Is that the mani's will be fairly low cost. Maybe $600US as they are only cast. I think you would pay extra for optional extrude honing. Just a guess though. I cant see they are that expensive to make and I would rely on selling lots a bit cheaper than a few expensive to make money but who knows?
Re: Amateurish F1 teams Nathan, you're forgetting that the F1 teams can afford to run the manifolds for 300km then throw them away and fit new ones. Unfortunately we get stuck with the heavy duty product in the interests of longevity.
Surely they pick the best metal most likely not to fail during the race? Why arent they using cast? Have a read up on inconel on the internet and you'l see why its used. First yahoo for inconel.
It may well be the best metal for manifolds but there's not much of it... it's very thin in that application (F1) and designed to last only for the race. As Colin Chapman is supposed to have said, "If the race car survives the victory lap, it's over-engineered!"
F1 manifolds also don't support turbo. what is your plan for exhaust manifolds for your new build nathan? are you going to go repair the GD manifolds?
If the 300 manifolds are thicker, even with Inconel, then what relevance do they have with the F1 application by "amateurish" teams. All I was pointing out is that for a race car, the metalwork is not designed to last, whereas it has to in a road application. Let's stop this now, before it develops into a shit fight that we'll both regret. You can have the last word!
Yep, also the reason to add flex joints to the exhaust to take some of the stresses out. Same manis, it was just a hairline crack near the flange so simply welded over. The fact that it cracked was more a testament that temperatures were reaching around 1300 degrees rather than any problem with the material or quality. If someone will guarantee the manis and internals at 1300 degrees then I will switch back to cast
No big deal we just disagree with your statement "dont have to last" they do have to finish the race. Put stainless on them or probably anything else for that matter and they wouldnt. The temps and stresses are huge, obviously, because so many of the cars manage a DNF despite enormous prep and budget. Its a testiment to the choice of best material for headers period. If there was something better wouldnt they use it? There is tons of info available so Im not quite sure what your having a go at me about, not like Im making this up. This is where my comment is directed as it is CLEARLY completely false. Another of the crap statements that get passed of as gospel here with members too scared to argue it.
a few questions where does the flexjoint go? between the mani and the turbo or after the turbo? What is it made of and how does it flex? got any pics of what it is or looks like? can someone explain the depth axis in that graph? the inches it seems to me, that these mani's by flowing 30% more than extrude honed (which flow how much more than stock?), then your turbo's would be spooling up 30% faster... that is a no brainer of a good mod to do! and for $600 US when you are already spending $3kAuD+ on the turbo's, sounds like good value for money
I think you misread what I typed, the re-worked stockies are the V1's of MS manifolds. They are welded and ported out to the almost exact shape of the new MS design except the ID is smaller.
Yeah sorry, didnt misread but they changed the label on the graph between different posts. The original is here: Earlier post The original graph (not linked in the first post) shows the flow numbers of the welded MS. In the new graph (linked in the first post) if you compare the old one the numbers are much much higher. They are talking about his first prototype cast here I am quite sure, not the welded.
The manifolds Greg uses are made from Inconel 625 which certainly doesn't have the highest strength and melting points according to the specs from this site
