Last month after my new coilover install I ensured I went straight away to the alignment shop to get everything set correctly. My alignment guru (local Nissan tech who's also a a Zed owner/enthusiast/racer) mentioned to me during the alignment process that I should have my ball joints on the HICAS tie rod ends replaced as they are showing signs of where. I can attribute that to a combination of mileage/age and type of use. I looked into the cost of new oem ball joints and labour which got me to thinking about the big picture to all of this. Since I have a 90 TT I have that humongus solenoid in the engine bay. Attached to it of course is huge hydraulic lines that I've had to re-tighten due to weeping due to age of course. I knew over a year ago that I would have to look into replacing those lines as a matter of prudent preventative maintenance. So when I look at my current situation of needing to replace tie rod end ball joints for the HICAS and replacing the hydraulic lines in the engine bay I'm thinking to myself, will the pump be next on the horizon or some other part of the HICAS / Power steering system. Which all brings me to the point of this thread. I see numerous offerings to the HICAS removal process by various makers/vendors/suppliers each having perhaps their own take or way of approaching this process. Then I came upon a UK Z'er who posted this thread a few months back on 3ZC. I like the way that Driftworks and the Total HICAS Elimination Kit has aproached this. It appears that there's no requirment for a great big eliminator bar which in itself would be nearly the same cost as the complete Driftworks package. It not only eliminates the HICAS function but also addresses the ball joint bushing replacement which I see as the biggest qualifier of this package. I'm seriously going to consider this particular mod and will also marry this with the removal of the rear actuator, engine bay solenoid and all of the hoses, replace reservoir with an NA one, repplace the TT power steering pump with a reconditioned NA pump, etc. I think in this way I'll negate any further issues related to HICAS and also any related power steering issues. I'd be interested to hear anyone's take on the Driftworks kit or other options that I may not have considered.
I was looking at purchasing this ... but UAS are in the process of making a midori style hicas eliminator much cheaper than original. this looks like a good kit but questions are raised whether removing the balljoint at the hubb is a good idea
What sort of questions are we talking about? I tried to contact "jimmy" from the UK Forum to get a bit of feedback after being install for a few months ago. He's recently posted some roadcourse videos so that in itself may be a valuable measuring tool to go by.
well the TT comes with a ball joint . the midori style eliminator retains this .... the driftworks eliminates this balljoint all together.. Now.. the N/A doesn't come with a ball joint.. MY QUESTION..Is the balljoint there because of the movement in Hicas Steering? if so then its not needed when eliminating hicas ..
Ah, OK, good point. My ball joints are worn so anyway you look at it, they (the old ball joints) would have to be removed.
yes but is the suspension better with ball joints or without ? havent been able to get a decent answer anywhere....
I thought the only purpose of the ball joints was for the HICAS tie rod ends and that's it. Now that it will be in a fixed position, the requirement for a ball joint no longer exists. The wheel no longer needs to turn left or right but will only retain the up down movement. As in the case of an NA as you mentioned.
Yes but the rear end by design has up to 6 mm total toe change from full compression to full droop. Most of the travel is 30mm up and down where it still gets 3 or 4mm toe change. We changed the geometry after trialling various locations of the rear toe arm inner and outer pivot point up, down, forward and back. Spending many hours on this and reduced it to about 2mm total change. The front end is easy to fix bump steer, the rear is much harder and different angles and length arms. Basically the rear end goes through an ark, and I had this set up same as these orange ones in my car, and flogged out the bush, as it was binding, which also effects suspension by restricting it, and when it frees up it has play. http://www.uniqueautosports.com.au/downloads/rear_toe_and_camber.xls Pic below is the earlier set up. The inner rod end takes up the angle change but better to have outer ball joint unrestricted also. Pic below show the latest set up with outer ball joint.
I'm not sure if I'm out of my league on this, but it doesn't seem that there should be any difference if there's a heim joint or ball joint at the end. It's still a fixed length rod that it's attached to. Nonetheless, I've passed this onto Ben at Driftworks and perhaps he can respond to this.
John, you've got quite the elaborate rear suspension set-up there - very impressive. In searching other Forums on the same subject, there doesn't appear to be any imperical evidence to indicate that switching completely to an NA set-up from the HICAS has had any detrimental effects, even in the long term. That said, I will always make my obligatory checks to mods I've made in the past just to confirm their integrity. I'll include an excerpt from an email I recieved back from Ben at Driftworks regarding your attached post;
The main issue is that when you have rose joints and ball races in every movable surface in the suspension. You cannot have any flex caused by bushings in any of the planes of movement. This is why there are so many Midori failures in the front with many people still having tension rod rubber bushings which allow fore and aft movement, Same in the rear. For Johns set up it is full of rose joints or bearings the rear toe ball joint must be retained. If you have a stock rubber bushings in all locations these drift bushings are probably fine. The stock setup is pretty rubbery at best. In a full rose jointed rear end. They are not good enough.
^^^Excellent points for sure and I can appreciate the issues associated with the heim (rose) joint. That is why when Vuk installs any of his suspension parts that have the rose joints he ensures that the heim joint is centered when suspension is at normal rest and not unloaded when on a lift. In that way that rose joint has the ability to flex that minimal amount from either side of vertical or zero degrees if you will. The beauty of the Driftworks as I understand it from Ben, is that the use of a rose joint at the frame and a bushing at the spindle will allow the certain amount of forgiveness needed as long as the rose joint on the frame is at the middle or centered position when the suspension is at rest on the ground. I can see or understand such failures as you mentioned since few may realize that they need to have those rose joints centered when the car is at rest on the ground and not when it's elevated on a lift. That rose joint needs to have that certain amount of flop movement back and forth from either side of center. *EDIT* As you can see from John's first pic above the HICAS replacement arm's heim (rose) joint is fully set to one side resting against it's supporting holder. I'm going to assume that when the car is off the lift and on the ground that Rose joint will sit centered in it's holder.
I'd say to induce the 6mm toe deflection that john (uas) is talking about on a road driven z, you'd have to be well out of order, a rollover would do it.
. Yes 6mm toe change is factory geometry and this varies with the slight flex in the bush end set up, but not in ball joint one end and quality rod end the other, which is another reason for going to our set up. OEM have improved and gone in the direction of ball joint ball joint with control arms as a better set up with less flex and less ware and no binding. Bushes are becoming old school. I have seen one after market company make a double rose jointed radius rod. As in bracket on the lower control arm with rose joint and also at the radius rod box, to reduce restriction in movement.
I have the Driftworks Hicas kit on my Z and think it's great.. plus the customer service is great too. Installation was direct, just needed something to punch out the old joints.
