the ported stockies isn't to copy, just to talk to the guy and give him a look at the shape of what would be wanted thats important, cos the more number of separate pieces of the mould that they would need then the higher the cost if the turbo flange comes out 10mm, will the gt28R's still fit inside the chassis rails? and the actuator also? i was under the impression that there's only a few mm of space there (aren't we already shaving an engine mount?)
Everything still fits moving the flange out 10mm.But we should check it again before setting anything in concrete. If you look at the MS manifolds the turbo flange has moved. there are also comments on this on TT net. There will be a major restriction on the outlet if this is not done. Note also the directors cast into the inside edge of the manifolds. You can port on the downstream side of gas flow. But you have to leave the upstream directors in place. I havent seen Andrews porting job to comment. GJ
i farken forgot to bring andrews with me to work today... that'll delay it till monday unless andrew is at home right now reading this and wants to do lunch out my way again hehe graham, do you mean that the outlets from the block must be matched with the inlets on the exh.man. flange? yeah i understand they would have to be identical, and that the airflow path gradually increased after that... i wanna learn more about these directors, will inspect andrews and see if he still has them in his mani's i'll look into the MS turbo flange moving, if you have a link that i should see then post it up
If UAS manifolds have just been extrude honed and not hand ported they will probably be OK. If you look into the entry of each runner. You can see there is part of the casting on the up stream side that directs the exhaust flow in the direction of the gas flow. It looks like airstriction but its a director and aligns the exhaust gas to the gas flow in the log. I have seen some port jobs that grind this out and that is wrong. You can basically cut a heap out of the down stream side of the runner where it joins the log. But you can only smooth and shape the director on the up stream side, or the incoming exhaust will smash into the back wall of the log without changing direction. That aint good.
hmm interesting i guess that would have been an issue with the stainless mani's? like egg's etc where you can't really modify that kinda stuff, it's just circular pipes...?
i've got a meeting with the pattern maker on monday, turns out the company i work for has had stuff done by them before are we able to find out (somehow) this weekend just how much space exists for the movement of that flange with the GT28R's and actuators?
some info for this thread: link showing some clearance of the actuator and engine mount http://www.aus300zx.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239796&highlight=GT28R link showing some abeler mani's on ttnet http://www.twinturbo.net/net/viewmsg.aspx?forum=general&msg_id=1826051 here it is being made at the foundry
nah theyre ported and then extrude honed.. still have the directors your talking about though on the center runner.. massive difference between the stockies and the UAS ones
They outflow the stock manifolds by over 100% at certain lifts, they are cast, they are reliable, they don't have to be smooth to outflow the stockies by 100% at full lift and they bolt straight up. The proof and flow results are on tt.net for anyone who begs to differ. http://www.twinturbo.net/net/viewmsg.aspx?forum=general&msg_id=1710125&forum=general&dtSearch=0 not this - at .1 lift, the ported heads and MS manis are outflowing the stock heads and stock manifolds at .4 lift!
even if you port the stock out as much as possible, they will be no where near as large as the MS ones. $500 / side is expensive for a cast (if this is the price), but the time you would save porting, getting a mould made, then casing them it would even it out. They are a good buy e.o.s
see my earlier post John, they don't have to be honed an ported to outflow anything. The only thing that they don't outflow is tubulars but it was only by about 1% from memory.
No prbs Andrew, If I get some time I will take a pic of my porting job and we can compare the centre runners on the UAS and mine. That would be interesting.
The JA manis had heaps of problems with stud clearance, but I think they fixed it a bit and they are selling on a website somewhere, can't remember where exactly. If the MS ones ever come out and I get my hands on a set before I am ready to use them, I will be happy to give them out so people can check them / flow test them etc if they don't believe the flow results on tt.net
The reason i spoke about the flanges needing to be moved. On Eggs samples, the passenger side turbo flange is in the same spot as stock. But the tube diameter has increased a fair bit. What this means is that the flange sits a long way back close to the last runner. The nett result is that even though the tube is bigger it is actually compressed in size as it passes by the last runner. If you have a look at the log it is S shaped. and the last curve on the passenger side is squashed up close to the head and the inlet flange. To allow for the bigger diameter pipe the flange must move out slightly to stop compressing the diameter before it exits the manifold. Maybe 5mm would be enough. But it needs something. I dont think the actuator is the issue. Its the turbo inlet flange which will be down closer and behind the engine mount. I have a spare engine on a stand ATM. Next week i can bolt up the GT28R's and stick a 5mm spacer on the outlet flange and see what happens to the clearances to the turbo.. I will post pics of the squeeze in the stainless manifolds and show how the turbos fit up with additional 5mm flange spacers. Those pics Matty show the outlets on those cast ones are not in the stock position either. Method, Those pics of the 3 inch dumps and their clearance to the starter and chassis rail should answer your questions about 2 1/2 inch and 3 inch dumps. Man, those 3 inch ones are too close to EVERYTHING!
Was it the JA ones that people were complaining you had to clock the turbo's or that they changed the orientation of the turbo somehow (my impression on reading it, was that it would require dumps specific to that mani/turbo setup) If it is those JA ones, can you explain what the difference is in the pics shown in my above post? i'm trying to spot the diff...
I was always under the impression that regardless of what you buy, if you are using GT28R/RS turbos, you have to clock one of the housings, it has nothing to do with the manifolds. The JA ones are what everyone complained about, one of the studs wouldn't go on.
Clocking the housings takes 2 mins with a spanner. That is an non issue. The inlet stud is an issue. Its tight with the stock mani's and GT28R's. The position puts the bottom bolt almost beside the engine mount. So you cant get the bolt in the turbo inlet flange mounting hole. You have to screw a stud in the hole and use a nut instead. If you look at the JA ones they have repositioned the flange much lower. Thats why they have a problem with the bottom stud. Its right behind the mount. They would have to fix that to sell em. The MS ones should be better than those. Neither of these is much of a problem.
Ported and extrude honed Tektrader UAS manifolds are hand ported and extrude honed. He does before and after flow tests and has done lots of them and also GTR's and GTS-T manifolds for us. Through testing and trial and error he has got it down to an art where and how to port especially the middle runner which is the most restrictive and changes the angle a bit by porting carefully. So it is actually better to do both. Also re testing our UAS ones have not been tested against these but others have which may or may not be ported and extrude honed as well? Some are sand blasted and say they are Power Ported but not as good as Extrude Honing. Also a lot of the race teams in USA use this extensively. These should be the go and would love to flow test some and can use the same jig and flanges I suspect that we have already made to extrude hone. Only problem is they sound like very expensive unless price drops a lot with volume. Like the factory ones being cast is the best feature as they won't crack. HKS have or had a GTS-T cast manifold that Abrasive Flow Engineering flow tested and extrude honed and came up real well. The question also is will they make more power up to 450rwkw. Lots of discussion about these and they should make more power by flowing more than stock ones especially if extrude honed but who will require over 450rwkw and have the motor and set up to require and handle this? The other point not discussed is flowing even which they may or may not flow as even to start with than stock but I would think they could, and flow testing is the only way to know. Also EGT's on dyno or if has Motec or similar to log temps in exhaust. Again flow testing before anything then correcting as best as can from porting and extrude honing the most restrictive runners. To balance motor out is important especially with big hp. Also pic shows silver HPC treatment will not last long, hard enough with the high temp black especially if running big power and gettin real hot. http://www.abrasiveflow.com/ http://www.extrudehone.com/polish_surface_finish/afm_polish_surface_finish.html
only photo i have at the moment showing inside center runner.. is this what you mean? take some pics and ill copy them on my manis most of the port work is around the back port and the turbo flange
