Has anyone converted a stock NA to E85? (my car wont be stock forever but it is right now) What is required? I know i would need - Fuel pump to suit e85 e85 fuel hose bigger injectors a tune Anything else? Also interested in flex fuel setups, who sells, who is running what etc.
Other than the list you already have, will also need to change all hard fuel lines throughout the car from the tank all the way to the engine bay. Stock lines are not E85 compliant and will corrode. I have not done my car, running old nistune firmware which does not support it but have assisted 2 friends on the forum changing their cars over. One is on flex fuel the other on straight E85. They are both running Haltechs. Flex fuel just involves an extra sensor that measures ethanol content in the fuel, if you are going to the trouble of doing E85 may as well just add it and a smart enough ECU that will adjust on the fly to accommodate. With Nistune they added flex fuel support for VG30DETT last year so you could potentially get away with just buying the firmware board for the stock ECU. This way you can run straight E85 and it will automatically back off when running regular fuel. Is it worth it? On boosted applications you'll gain 60HP straight off the bat. On a NA maybe more conservative, let's say 30HP? You would potentially be running much more aggressive timing and lots of gains throughout the mid range. I wouldn't want the car to be straight E85 though as the range is quite poor. If you still plan to use the car on cruises you would want to add the flex fuel sensor. With the cost of the injectors ($500), a good tune ($500) and the cost of an aftermarket ECU (at least $1k) and $500 for misc items such as new fuel lines and flex sensor etc, this is a $2k exercise. Slightly cheaper if you use the stock ECU with Nistune board.
I think Mike is being very conservative in his estimate Pump - $220 Lines - depends how far you want to go - $500 - $1500 including fittings/filters etc E85 Regulator - $200 Injectors - $500 ECU - $600 (nistune firmware update) - $3000 (Emtron etc) Tune - usually at least the cost of a normal 'tune' x 2 - $1500? Sensor - $200 I spent alot of money on my fuel system. Alot. Thousands. I spreadsheeted the original parts and estimates/quotes. Then spent a bit more in extra fittings and stuff that I overlooked. You wouldn't need to go that far with new rails etc, but if you are going to do it, do it right, don't skimp on fuel system. Plan everything before you buy anything!
You're not known for budget conscious upgrades Upgrading the NA to flex fuel will always comes back to the old cost vs power gain question of is it worth it. Best to keep the spend as low as possible.
If I had have told Cara how much it actually cost (before I started), it never would have even begun! I estimated ~$4k in parts (pumps/lines/rails/e85 sensor/regulator). Was way more than that in the end. My initial estimates were that rubber pushlock hose is no cheaper than braided teflon (after you add the high pressure end clamps), so I went with the teflon. If I was to do it again, I would buy a bender and make up new hardlines (stainless or annodized) for under the car/long runs, and I would use pushlock everywhere else.
what ecus would be recomended that dont loose any functionality? i do like the idea of nistune but only if it will do it properly.
Nistune will do it quite well. I only changed from Nistune for extra resolution (and on board knock listening, and map sensor, and boost control). Depends if you want proper flex fuel tune (fill up with any combination of content) or just dual maps.
I run the nistune flex, but i haven't bothered flex tuning it and went to straight E85. Wouldn't bother on an NA though, unless you are boosting it. Mine was: BDE Fuel Rails - $860 Random Fittings etc - $300ish E85 Safe Fuel Lines - $120 Injectors - $635 Nistune (already had but sent to get flex upgrade) - $160 Flex Sensor - $120 FPR - Already Had Tune - Did myself But again, unless you are adding some sort of forced induction i wouldn't waste time or money doing that.
I'm with ya there but I'm on the losing end so I've had to cut all zed expenditure to pretty much just filling it up with petrol. Back on topic, taking into account the dyno time needed and just getting the little bits it will all add up. $4k is definitely more realistic, we did a bulk buy on lines and fittings, that saved significantly spread across 2 cars as shipping costs were halved. If this was a TT E85 conversion I'd be saying the same to not skimp on the fuel system and go big. It leaves headroom for later. However as it's for NA application, I'd try and do this as cheap as possible. Both friends went with Haltech Platinum Pros as the tuner we all use prefers Haltechs and will only do Nistune if you beg as it's slightly limited. It cannot make on run adjustments after the car's tuned where as the Haltech will constantly monitor the ethanol, adjust on the fly all the time and there's a function to allow it to dial down the boost as well if the intake temps go up (e.g. when it's a 30degree plus day). I recall one was purchased locally and the other from USA. In the end expect to pay at least $2k all up including the intake temp sensor and the ethonol content sensor. Again, I wouldn't want a dedicated E85 car, you are severely limited in range which makes the car less usable. They are plug and play. Simply replace the stock ECU and you can actually flash the unit yourself with a stock tune to drive it around temporarily. http://store.haltech.com/exportstor...-included-in-all-direct-plug-in-kits-exp.html The installation was super easy, plug it into stock loom and run a few new wires into the cabin for the extra sensors, 5min flash job to get the car running. However I don't think they have a VG30DE stock tune so you may need to download a compatible .bin file if you can find one.
Sky's the limit in terms of how much you "can" spend On an NA I would think of other ways to spend the money, but then if I was hell bent on going through with it I would do the following: -series 2 injectors (look for new or second hand nismo 740s) -adapter kit & series 2 connectors from Coz $150AUD -fuel pump $200 -Nistune $352 (board and fitting) -Walbro pump $200 -$100 in lines and fittings -Flex sensor & harness $280 Obviously you will need to get it tuned somewhere. You could throw a fuel reg in there too at around $200. You don't need to go nuts with lines and fittings and rails and 1000cc injectors and stand alone engine management. The setup above handles at least 270rwkw on e85 which you will never make on an NA.
rob's suggestion is on the money for a NA but I'd probably go a step down and get second hand Nismo 555's or even stock TT s2 injectors which absolutely no one wants anymore. The newer 555s are actually just rebranded 740s so if you can find the older yellow topped 555s, they're the ones to low ball on. If you can get a set of these cheap enough (say $300 for 555s and $150 for stock s2?), finding local supplier of braided teflon is the next step. I trust the local SpeedFlow resellers and get them to supply connectors and assemble the lines. The quality was actually better than some of the USA sourced stuff. For anyone looking for a bragin, there's 740s on here for $400. Generic JECS branded but will work just fine: http://www.aus300zx.com/forum/showthread.php?t=335687&highlight=nismo
Yep - this! It's not hard and reasonably cost effective. Take your time and you'll end up with a good job. Benders aren't expensive either. Flaring tools can be expensive if you want a fancy one.
I'd be genuinely interested to see what sort of gains could be made NA with E85. Well worth the effort if you can gain 30hp out of it plus have the bonus of a boost ready fuel system if done right.
why do the hard lines need replacing? are they too small for E85 or is it the wrong metal for e85 or something? what range can be expected on a full tank of e85, driving normally? (ie - commuting, stop start city with a little highway)
