As you all know there are 3 types of intercooler in two families. FMIC, SMIC, TMIC Air to Air, Air to Water. There is 2 things that can be eliminated here for my application, TMIC and Air to Water. That leaves me with the choices between SMIC and FMIC. As I understand it, larger exposed surface area with a thinner core is best as this reduces charge temp most efficiently will the least loss. Does anyone have the figures for the general differences between FMIC and SMIC? I am thinking that a decent and fairly thin FMIC with my bumper modified to direct as much air as possible towards it the best way to go. There is also THIS information I found. Remember, I am doing a NA to TT conversion without changing the STATIC compression ratio (Dynamic is changed but not the static) What are the tech guru's thoughts? Peace
Your looking into this way too much imo just get bigger side mounts, Japtek/Z1 along those lines. I installed Z1 smic's last weekend, much thicker than stock using the stock air guides and the difference is HUGE so much better.
I am looking into it a lot because I am going to TT an NA without chaning the static CR. The intercooler that I fit needs to be the most efficient I can find. Thicker is not better, this is obvious because of the restricted amount of air able to pass through the intercooler (not the charge air passing through the intercooler, the ambient air's ability to pass through, thus cooling the charge). Peace
Well Z1's as you can see are thick but use the stock guides, guides make a big difference and they fit perfectly to the entire face of them. just my 2c. They're a great improvement I cant stress just how much better they are than stock and how many fmic's have ducts?
Since I dont have a stock bar I cant use the stock guides. Therefor I will be making my own for the bar I have.
whats the point a high compression TT is just going to be ping city.. you might aswell run stock intercoolers and limit yourself to 7to 10 psi.... if you boost a NA motor its not going 2 last long
To keep the temps down on a high compression turbo. Consider a set of thicker SMIC and water injection. Will alleviate any ongoing hi boost detonation. Dont use water and meth (if you head about it) as in fact it reduces the effectiveness as the meth is induced as a fuel and not a cooling agent. Im doing this for my project turbo 720, as i havent the room for a A2A intercooler and the current W2A kit i want is a tad out of the price bracket. Im using water injection to reduce the charge temps for around 6/7psi up. As i currently dont have an ecu that will retard my timing. Hence the ping. This way i can amp up the timing for off boost driving, and have a safe high boost range with water injected cooling. Food for thought. Worth F all to make, and will help your situation. Are you still taking the heads off? I as others, believe if so, get a set of TT pistons and take the headaches away. An engine pull is cake. If you need more info and some specifics, pm me. Happy to discuss. Edit, regardless of what i say and others, its your car, and your engine oh and your money. Do as you want. But we're all stating the opposites to your plans as we've all seen it before and seen how bad it ends. However! if you're doing it correct and not asking too much of the build, you will have a kick ass car to drive. But i plead, build it within reason. No point spending this coin and having a broken engine in 2 months. =D
Thicker is better. Thin is nonsense. You are flooding that thing with hot air remember, it will heat up in no time at all. Thin means less thermal mass to absorb the temp fluctuations. You also need to be as big as possible to allow the air room to expand and cool. However the larger it is the laggier it will be. Should be less of a problem with high compression. Thick or bust. I woud seriously consider water/meth injection. Good priced kits avail that will seriously help.
Ive done a lot of the math and this is just not true. If I am able to keep charge temps down to an acceptable level I could even run 14psi, though I do not intend to. On a high compression motor there is not much point in going over 10psi. In this respect I would have better turbo response, better torque and most importantly . . . usable power curve. drz400y is going to run 10psi on an NA motor with no intercooler and only w/m injection and he is a bit of a guru it seems. If I could find a set cheap enough I would. I dont think I will be taking the head off unless necessary. Otherwise I could just swap this NA with that other guy's TT in the zed for sale thread. LOL. However, I would love to keep this shell because it is a slicktop, they will be worth money later on because there were far less of them made. I intended on using TT auto intake cams to reduce the DCR (not the SCR) of the motor thereby making safer conditions for boosting. Thank you, I may just take you up on that. I dont believe that 10psi from a high comp engine is asking too much. Others whom are knowledgeable seem to agree and Ive seen some ridiculous "just slap a turbo on it" motors last a fair while even when they have been high compression to start with. With the correct engineering a high compression motor can run 20+ psi no worries but this is HUGE dollars to achieve. Not sure I explained this right "Thin (to allow air flow outside) but large face (to allow for expansion and therefor cooling) Thanks, I will consider this very seriously. thx
Stock or even slightly larger side mounts will be fine, remember you are only running a max of 14psi, so compressor discharge temp will still be relatively cool. Upgrading to the biggest intercoolers money can buy is only going to increase lag with almost no benefit to cooling at this boost level. What you need is in cylinder cooling(water meth). Pimary focus needs to be on combustion temps, not so much on intake temps. You are over complicating this too much. 10psi, stock coolers and a light mist of water/meth is more than enough to make it survive. The life of the engine is entirely in the tune. The margin for error is extremely wide with a boosted NA, your tuner needs to be really on his game or you need to be prepared to pay for a few engines.
You are correct, there are plenty of skylines running around with turbo'd na's. And they're lasting, so you are correct. Its being done and without fail. But as dzy states its all in the tune. Speaking of which, what are you using for this? Nistune? stock tt. What injectors. Ive probably missed this info somewhere, so ignore me if you've already stated it. Ill find it.
Chipped and remapped NA ecu (cos I will be using turbosmart eboost 2 for everything else) and I was thinking of looking into the nistune stuff to see if it is compatable with what I am trying to achieve. I will just use the stock TT injectors (series 2 type) There is info in my slicktop NA to TT thread in the builds section. I am having a serious look into this w/m injection theory also so that may be something included in the build. This is also why I have that other thread, cos I want to know just how many slicktops are out there . . . . Peace
ah ok. and its plain old water injection, water meth, is for the people that can support more go go, but not wanting nos. similar theory. plain water injection will cool the cylinders. and thats what you want.
I thought it had been mentioned before that W/M is not an octane booster because the meth never gets the chance to ignight. The whole theory is in evaporative cooling isnt it? Could be wrong but thats how I read it from drz400y's explination. You are right about the water thing though, if anyone has ever noticed, a car runs a hell of a lot better when its a cold and slightly foggy night. If one were to take off ones air filter, it would run even better again. This is working from the same principal I believe. The natural "fog" in the air creating a cooler cylinder environment. Anyone got a decent link for an acceptable Water or W/M injection system? Preferably a type that has been used by a few people here and is known to be good. Peace
Sorry, no. Adding meth is proven to aid in charge cooling over straight water. Being a fuel non-withstanding, we are talking pre-combustion. Whether it's water, methanol, ethanol or petroleum, or basically any fluid with a vapour state at less than 100deg injected into the system, be it a fuel or otherwise will absorb heat energy from the charge. Obviously some are better than others. When petrol is injected into the lower plenum, it reduces the charge temps quite a bit in itself, which is a contributing factor (not the only one) as to why those who run E85 can run such advanced timing as it is cooling the charge that much further than petrol. Being a fuel doesn't change methanol's ability to reduce charge air temps, and the levels at which your injecting it won't really affect AFR's to a noticeable degree, and that it is by far the best readily available fluid available to reduce the air temps means it is really the best choice. All of that is rendered purely theoretical as it is illegal in Australia to use methanol for automotive purposes outside of the dragstrip and some dirt racing.
Yep, this is how I understood it also, not a only reduction in charge temp but a reduction in cylinder temp also because it is pre-ignition and does its job of cooling and evaporates before it even has the chance to ignite. Would something like this do the trick? Those parts look like they are easily obtained from somewhere like JayCar for a lot cheaper. Would be nice if someone showed me what everyone else is using though. Peace
I would be paying more for a good quality injector that will atomise the mix as finely as possible. The rest of that eBay kit will probably be fine if you're not running right on the edge of potential detonation (in case the pump or something else fails)
Yea, thats the type of thing I want and I am searching. No one has pointed me in the right direction yet though. Peace
I would buy the nozzles and pumps from a company such as "devils own" or "aquamist". At minimum the nozzles, cheap nozzles can be the bane of getting good results from these setups and often 2 nozzles from an unknown supplier rated at the same capacity will flow quite different amounts, making it harder to tune.
