humpty someone please fill me in on the humpty gag , i missed it and now you's are making me feel like a n00b
HAHAHAHA! Good try. You have failed in your attempt to get me to mention "That Which Cannot Be Mentioned Again, Because It Was Mentioned Before", you miserable wretch. All I can tell you is,"He was pushed!".:bash::banned::zlove:
second chad's idea of the skidpan day shall i look into it? i've only done one skidpan day in the zed (was with SAU at DECA in shepparton) and it helped heaps. i didn't go out there to win but just to learn a thing or two about the zed and plus i'd never driven rear wheel drive cars before the zed so my only knowledge of drifting was through gran turismo lol. not sure if it's as simple as that. i'm no drifter but here's my simplistic view on things. i reckon there's two ways to lose the tail (there's probably more but i'm not really good at explaining it) -accelerating too hard, too early while turning and causing the rear wheels to over come the friction between the ground and tyres and then they start to spin so the tail kicks out. I think it's called power oversteering (powerover from tokyo drift... lol at bow wow trying to act haha) anyways i think to correct this, you'd countersteer and lift off the accelerator to stop the wheels spinning and that would regain your back end grip. the other way would be when you take a turn to fast and the back end just loses grip because of weight transfer to the front and side (loss of friction between tyres and road. friction force is proportional to weight). not really sure about this one because it's never happened to me but i think maybe this is where you'd blip the accelerator to get some weight transfer back to the rear and some forward movement??? again i'm no racer so i wouldn't know. as chili has said, driver training course would be your best bet as they'll teach you how to react. i'll start looking around for a skidpan day for melb but on a skidpan day you're really left to figure it all out for yourself so a driver training course is probably better in that sense. I'm doing one soon too. it's free too because my parents are with aami.
mention but if we mention that which we can never mention again surely we have mentioned that of which we shouldnt mention
Did you jump off the throttle mid corner? Lift-oversteer often catches people out in the wet. Agree with the skid pan suggestions, teaches you to be confident without being wreckless... there is much to learn about the effects of disrupting the balance of the car...although i wouldn't condone applying throttle as a fix all approach, too much potential to amplify the seriousness of the situation.
Mmmm drifting.... -Handbrake -Brake drift -Power-over -Clutch lock -Feint -Dynamic (Lift-oversteer) -Clutch kick Agreed with CHILI, being in 4th doesn't really give you a lot of throttle response @ that speed which doesn't help. In power over situations the initial slip angles tend to be fairly low due to the point at which you can initiate the slide, so I'd be suggesting you need to counter-steer and allow the rears to find grip again. I'd be cutting the throttle (but not getting off it completely) in order to allow the tires to get friction without sending all the weight to the front which would happen when you jump on the brakes (which is oh so tempting to do!). That's just IMHO. Wait for Franz / RZM / ZX2NV / CHILI / JP / FLEET etc as they will have more knowledge on the limits of tire grip.
It's all about knowing what the limits are and not exceeding them. You went round the corner too fast, or pushed the accelerator too hard at the wrong time. When I was at high school, we used to go down to the frozen lake in the veedubs and drive along a track that had been cleared in the snow on the ice. I still went around a corner too fast like you and ended up crossing the road and facing the wrong way. It's very hard catching a car that is out of control, just watch the motor races. Driving a powerful car in the wet, you have to imagine you have an egg between your foot and the accelerator and make sure you don't break it.
Whoah, he's not asking how to hold massive angles that would impress Tsuchiya-san himself, he wants to know the best way to get out of a slide and avoid spinning. What happens in a spin like the one ahzi encountered (and most spins for that matter), is the rear tyres lose traction and begin to slide. Now, pumping the accelerator is one great way of prolonging that slide, but that's something thats better reserved for the skidpan and the racetrack, not wet crowded streets. Just ease off the juice (emphasis on the ease, don't be abrupt) and steer into the slide just a little (no crazy dori-dori opposite lock action, okay you cowboys?). What you want to do is restore traction to the rear wheels and applying more gas is just going to turn those rear wheels even harder and exacerbate the slide. Laying off the power gently will allow the wheels to slow down to match the road speed and give you grip again and enable you to straighten up without spinning. Just be careful to do every action smoothly. Suddenly snapping the throttle shut in a slide will more likely than not induce a bout of oversteer in the other direction, while steering into the slide too much can create problems if you don't centre it quickly enough once the car straightens up. I'm glad your tale had a happy ending though. If you're serious about learning more about car handling (don't just take my words as gospel, this advice is only based upon my limited race track experience and I'm sure some of the more knowledgeable members can identify some truck-sized holes in my arguments) book yourself in for some advanced driver training, preferably one where you get to drive your own car.
traction is a force, and if you try to push it past it's limits you'll start sliding, and once u start sliding you are using the dynamic coefficient of friction, which as u learnt in school physics is less than the static coefficient in other words, once u lose traction u gotta lower the force that u were exerting thru the rubber to a level even lower than when you broke it, which is the penalty u pay for pushing the limit too hard that force can be exerted by braking, accelerating, or turning too hard into a corner... if at the end of the turn you swing it hard, and try to make it kick around, you'll lose the back end I'm gonna organise a GB for the racelogic traction control unit... $1100 plus shipping is the price PZP has arranged for us :thumbup: what a legend! it'll only help you if you are losing traction due to too much throttle, but most of the time thats the cause... plus i want to be able to dial in 5% slip in the wet and plant it skidpan is a great idea
Dude all i can say is "You took the words right out of my mouth" Hahaha, in all honesty, ahzi its always a scarey moment where more often than not panic will hit and you won't have time to "drift" even think of such a thought. What works for me is "go with the flow" ease foot off accelerator, and get ready to brake, concentrate on steering and when you have some control back ease the brake on. But its all good and well for us to all go on about what you should do, in reality your heart goes nuts, the adrenalin starts pumping, and you end up over correcting too much and start swinging like a pendulum till you either crash or correct it up eventually. I like taking corners fast, i also like kicking the back out on private roads, so as a precaution i have a 2 degree cambre on my rear wheels. Basically with the cambre and good tires if i start sliding all i usually need to do is take my foot of the accelerater and the car just straightens itself up. Moral of the story though, don't accelerate coming out of a corner and you won't have much trouble.
man it's the hicas. the 4 wheel steer changes the direction of the rear wheels at about 70km/h. it's supposed to be a safety feature and increase turning circle at low speed, and keep more "stable" at high speed, but it doesn't seem too safe when she gets violently tail happy. it's easy as to remove, and just fit an eliminator bar
That is a total load of crap. HICAS doesn't operate in that way(or at those low speeds). Stop offering unproven theories as an excuse for what was clearly a lack of driving skill. Ahzi has already admitted he had no clue what caused this misadventure, or how to counter-act the spin.
Here's another theory (very controversial) Back in the 70s there was a motoring media personality named Peter Wherrett, whose career came to a rather sudden end when some of his other hobbies came to light. They wouldn't even raise an eyebrow these days, but back then they were career ending. Anyway, he ran a pretty successful defensive driving school, and his approach to the break away oversteer in a corner was the exact opposite to what everyone else said, i.e. keep off the brakes, steer into the drift until you get some traction and slowly bring the car back in line. Wherret's view was that's fine on a racetrack with no traffic coming in the other direction, with drivers who use that skill every day, but it is madness for the ordinary folk. Unless you correct the drift just right, the snap back in the other direction will be twice the power of the first slide, and if you over correct that one too, the next whip will be more savage again, etc, etc. Result? You fishtail up the road and finish up by wrapping yourself around a power pole 100 metres along. Wherret's view was very different. Steer against the skid and jump on the brakes. Surely that will cause a spin you say? Exactly said Wherret, you will do a 360 or maybe even a 720 but your car will stop pretty much at the exit to the corner, and any parked car or obstacle you might clip will be a glancing blow and not the potentially fatal sideways collision that you could get by pretending to be Jack Brabham (told you this was 70s stuff :biggrin. He went on to say that even if you went to a skid pan and practised day and night until you mastered the art of the slide, inside a month or so that skill would be long gone, while you would still be thinking you had it. It is an interesting point of view.
Pretty interesting, take into consideration what suspension was like back in those days though... now with stiffer suspensions and greater dampening etc the "kick back" is not as brutal, the car doesn't "lean" as much etc and hence momentum doesn't compound in other words a more fluid motion now... Basically now you can crash into those parked cars as smooooth as a camel cigarette.:bash:
Interesting idea. It makes sense though. I understand the overcorrection and snap back though. My friend was driving out of uni and took the turn out of uni at 70 in his commo. Tail kicked out, he over corrected and jumped off the throttle, car snaps back hard (hard enough for me to bang my head against the window), he slams on the brakes, can hear the ABS shuddering, meanwhile the car snaps back again and then again (because he's overcorrecting each time) and finally we end up on the median divider (on wellington road), almost hit the trees and then he regains control and we continue on to the next set of lights where the cars that were already on wellington rd catch up to us and they're all laughing at him. p.s. vic members check coming events for an EOI thread on a skid pan day.
bloody hicas haters sorry in advance for the mild flame as you are only a new user, but that is a load of crap, as i have said about 10 times on this forum HICAS is only active from 20mph to 70mph, so it doesnt affect 180kmh corners as some members have said and it does not increase your U-turn potential as said by others, honda preludes might work like that but not hicas, i regularly drift my TT in the appropiate conditions and my hicas works fine anyone with an elimination bar should hit themselves over their head with it
yep i was organising it but disapeared for a few weeks i am stil looking at getting one happening jsut cant do it at that place anymore (long story) the place i am gonna go to get my car tuned would be good and he would probably be up for it... but there isnt much parking available so now that i am back i will be looking for someone to hold the dyno day and it might give me some time to buy some prizes or something :bash:
