GT28RS Turbo's

I have them as well and think they are ok - I never had mine in proper

tune though so it felt a bit doughy off the mark.

 

My 10c worth

Just wanted to share some of my thoughts since we are on the topic.

Firstly John's dyno matches mine quite closely, so I disagee with the "now it looks to me like thats just a dodgy chart", in fact my car made almost the same power at only 19psi and on 98 octane (no enhancers).

Zisluvs old chart is close on spool up but loses it in the top end and over the 400kw mark is a lot of fun and I reckon well worth it.

I also wondered about the lag on shifter's chart but then I read he has a restrictive exhaust, so that probably explains it.

Ported manifolds and downpipes make all the difference, on lostsouls car (which is actually my last engine) went from 280rwkw to 316 and his changes were basically split flange downpipes and ported manifolds.

Head work and other stuff helps, but it seems clear that reduced exhaust/manifold restriction makes the best gains.

I did a lot of research and checking before going with the GT28RS and the newer technology really pays off in the spool. These turbos spool at exactly the same place as my old ones (basically rebuilt stock with open downpipes). Sure the engine is different and porting the manifold compensated, but these are likely to be the preferred future upgrade turbo for the Z.

In fact when Corkey Bell was asked what turbo upgrade for the Z he said an off the shelf T28 would be the best, now add ball bearing and smaller exhaust housing and these work. and no I don't sell them.

here's a comparasion charts I have done, sure they are not 100% accurate but pretty close.



or better quality here

PDF file (8k)

Just my 10c worth.

Cheers


Mike C(NZ)

 

Is the Z which weighs 300kg more than your one the one which ran the 9?

 

Man I had to baby sit my Niece on the weekend ,she's 4 and she didnt carry

on half as much as this post:LOL::LOL::LOL::zlove::zlove::zlove:

 

Even though your 10c worth.>

Might be only worth 8c here, it is great to read a post with some perspective and clarity. Hopefully it will be shut a couple of people up.

Tony

 

here you go

Here are some of the things which I am referring to.


10 Alloy mandrel bends $350 quality ones from Plazmaman.

- 10 alloy mandrel bends, so you are saying you pay $35 per bend? Someone in Melbourne, can get them for almost half that price, not mentioning names because it will just egg things on.


5 bolt non turbulence dump pipes HI TEMP BLACK HPC Coating $1600

- sgp sell good dumps, split design much like CES dumps for ~$700 landed. I am a nobody when it comes to hpc coating and got a quote of $500 to do BOTH manifolds in HPC extreme. I have seen how cheap some people get this when they have done a lot of things in HPC/TBC and I can tell you, it would come to < $1000 to get the dumps, and coat them.


Teflon braided hose and fittings for oil feed assembled $120

- Shop around, there are many sites who sell teflon braided hose and fittings. e.g. smithy sells enough braided hose and all the fittings to replace all fuel rail lines. It is quality hose and AN fittings for $100-150 landed. If you are using comp fittings they work out even cheaper than AN fittings.


Alloy pipe and plate to make brackets and pipe work for intake and outlet of compressor $50.
2 Alloy reducers $100
C & C machined stainless threaded rod to make Waste gate rod extensions $50
12 x M10 x 1.25 Glen Lock Stainless Exhaust manifold nuts $48
Metal plate for engine mount $30
8 x M8 Glen Lock Stainless turbo nuts $24

- Alloy pipe really costs nothing direct from suppliers, mandrel bending can be done for about $20 as with plate cutting, once it is done the first time, the rest are virtually done free of charge (materials supplied)


Workshop supplies, Argon and welding rod, etc $40
(I know Zilsuv understand this lesson the hard way.)
Labour to cut, machine, linish, polish, assemble minimum around 16 hours $1550 labour.

-Labour is labour, it is going to vary depending who does the work obviously so no need to make comparisons there.

I have rounded things a bit for ease and if my adding is correct it is about $8500. Also understand this is motorsport quality in parts, materials, fittings, coatings etc and can be made cheaper.

- I also am talking about quality parts which I can get, they are used on heavy machines > 40tonne, stressed more than they could ever be stressed in a car and last years.


At the end of the day, I am not a mechanic, engine builder or run a business and can get parts/things done at a reasonable price so I just find it hard to imagine that a workshop can't get things a lot cheaper than the public can if they have a good name / lots of contacts.

If you think the price is fair, buy it, I am not telling people not to buy it, I just don't see $8.5k worth of turbos there.

 

Great post.

 

Final words on the subject....

When I first bought my car I came to the forum and said I was going to build a 500+ rwhp car. There was next to no information on this forum in regards to that. In fact most people said your dreaming. I had to get most of my info from ttnet. Correct me if Im wrong but I was the first on the forum to break 500, years before UAS managed it.

For the years since we have always lagged behind the US in everything 300 related in terms of big power builds. Now I didnt come here to hold hands and go on cruises, I came here to find and contribute as much factual information about the zed as I could so others can build on it.

So many of you guys are so concerned about kissing up to the above mentioned shop that your simply too gutless to make a statement. For fear of maybe missing a cheap deal on some parts or something. Well I certainly dont have that problem. So for that fact so much outdated and just plain WRONG information gets sprouted on here its rediculous. If you take the information you find in this forum and discuss it in the US you will get laughed down. Try it and see. Ask about front mounts for instance.

Now John has a great workshop. Ive always said that, the quality of work is top class. However John certainly isnt the guru of 300s. Countless times he makes claims that his products are the best and he knows because of extensive research. They always seem to be products he is selling also. When asked to provide such proof, after the litany of insults you usually find there is nothing. Like the koyo for instance. Ran one similar radiator down one road and did the same with a different vehicle. WOW, extensive.

Manifolds, that somehow extrude honed is the best because he says so. Yet the flow bench shows differently.

Front mounts, that they are a MUST for engines making high HP and you CANNOT use sidemounts. Well Greg just ran a 9 second pass with a heavy car on sidemounts.

Lets not forget the water injection. The "off boost" water injection, thats a worlds first made by John and never used again, somehow running water passed closed throttle bodies and miraculously allowing him to increase his boost.

Now we have Shifters car, who just spent $20,000 on top of what he paid previously for work done by UAS to have his car spec'd up to the same as Johns car and frankly laggy as hell. The point is huge money paid and results NOT reproduced.

Now frankly I think all these points should be able to be brought up and discussed. However anyone who has been here longer than 3 months knows you cant bring anything up concerning UAS without a torrent of abuse from John and a few hanger ons. All to the detriment of the forum IMO and I for one am happy to keep pointing out these questions for as long as I think the explanations arent adequate.

 

Re: Final words on the subject....

i think its more about the way you say things Nathan, not that any of the children are much better..

one question i do have.. if shifter has spent soo much money, why does he have a shit exhaust.. isnt that the first thing you do?

method, not a dig.. but
yours added up to 8500.. anything that he saves with conatcts makes his profit (i think he lives off this doesnt he?) and it save you from having to run around and organise everything yourself.. kits arent usually cheaper.. just easier

if i had to run around and organise all that to save nothing.. why would i bother..

 

Ancient history.

Yes you probably were, and I was the first 1500cc Marque Sportscar Driver to break 18sec. on Amaroo Park Hill Climb.
So F@#king what! That is in the dim past, and may have been significant at the time, but not now.

You may have been "King" for a while, but now you're just the Court Jester in most peoples eyes. Why you need to continually re-inforce that well earned reputation is beyond me (but then, I do have a drinking problem, according to you.)

 

Re: Final words on the subject....

The subject is more about turbos then your poor sob story. I will not debate the other points you raised with you as they dont belong in the thread and have been discussed tons of times. (use SEACRH )

Again, learn to read or pay attention. John already said

I'd be interested in a steam pipe aftermarket manifold that flows like the tubular or similar ones if at a reasonable cost too. I just wouldn't be paying $2500 for stainless ones no matter how good they flow.

Despite being told the differences, despite being told its on the cards for more (dyno you see is only the beginning) and despite not having a clue about what I wanted or financial situation, you still have no clue. Who asked you to be the judge of my dyno? I'm the customer, I pay the bill, let me worry about it. See me worried? NO! So why are you? My car has a DIFFERENT setup to the slot car and NOT in a better way at the moment. Dyno curves are only as good as you wallet permits, mine doesn't permit much better AT THIS TIME.

Please read it over AGAIN, and read over the differences between my car and Johns. If you still dont understand, read it AGAIN. And keep doing it until you get it. Everyone else has, its time to catch up.

So give it a rest Nathan. Or PM me if you want. Things are usually resolved easier that way.

 

Exhaust

(details of it in profile). Comparing to the flow rate of the UAS slot car, mine would be much less. I have cat converters, and although my mufflers were good for the power it was making before, I think they need to be bigger, which I will be looking at doing among other things a little later but would like to enjoy my car first for a while while I gather up more money

 

Gets back up on

High horse and rides off into the west.
Can only hope he stays there.:wacko:

 

Really

Well if you did not carry on and attack not just me but numerous others. Even threaten to sue members because they simply asked you in a short simple post, Can't you just get along with people?" How pathetic is that and not good for moral. You have the audacity to make another sweeping statement that others bow to us and it is clear that this is what you are trying to do or expect and when some don't like me challenging the false statements you come up with bite. In life I have found that those who accuse others of a weakness is in fact their big weakness.

You can't help yourself verballing people as in changing totally what they say and you accuse me of using hear say. You constantly accuse others including me of your failings being lack of information and getting facts wrong, even lying. Well look in the mirror. Your enthusiasm and interest is obviously there just take a chill pill or something.

You mention manifolds and twisted that again. Where did I ever say they are the best. We may extrude hone them better and match port them better than the flow tests you put up. They certainly work and cheap reliable alternative. As shown and clearly seen I have always said good after market manifolds would be better but not necessarily. Problem is I don't want to spend thousands on them. We took the risk and educated guess and use these factory ones extrude honed. 139.67mph says they work if you don't believe the dyno. STILL waiting to see yours including 520plus rwhp. Again you accuse me and others of hiding things and it is you that does not come up with the goods. Where are your dyno readings????

You exaggerate things regularly and again in this last post you can't help yourself painting another twisted picture on things. A little drive down one road. Well it was apples for apples test and this all takes time. I don't see anyone else doing this in Australia at least. Then tests at the track conservative showing minimum 5c cooler. This is no surprise as fits with all professional theories including Plazmaman in Sydney who is highly regarded as the best in his field. I spoke to him yesterday about this and he said twin pass is the go and he has even done a triple pass on big hp V8 twin turbo car. PWR say same thing. If you are saying that this Koyo one is fantastically better due to being thicker or some composite core, don't think so. You imply that people should not have blind faith in us and our tests, well you do from tests done OS which is different climate and slightly different cars and may not be correct or apply here. You use stats such as Greg ran a 9 with it so must be the best. Well good is the enemy of better. Do you say he would not if had a FMIC. I say he would have done better with FMIC but at least ran the same. This all depends on which side mounts and which FMIC by the way. Same as front mounts you say we have no proof or tests. You totally verballed me on the twinturbo.net about a year ago about FMIC, leaving out clear and important info and trumped things up to suit as you do.
Ron Wizard was at our shop for hours about six months back at no cost on our dyno doing back to back to back tests with stock corner mounts, large side mounts and two different front mounts. As well as lots of data logging and recording at the track. Verbal again where you misquoted me and twisted when you stated I said you CANNOT use side mounts. We sell them and you can but I say not as good for big power. You have front mount intercooler.

Water injection. You again make false sweeping statements never used again. For your information we sold this motor about five months ago with Autronic with CDI, radiator and header tank, oil cooler, catch can with custom one way feeds for vacuum into dumps, wiring loom and hoses etc. This funded us to do another motor a bit different to TEST and see which is what we do a lot. We did a whole new set up including new wiring loom and Power FC. Also to fund VQ 3.8 project which is underway. We certainly will be using this or similar system again. Unlike what you think or say we do a lot of testing and tinkering and try to devise good products or methods that work and reliable and cheap. You imply or even say we do NO testing, who devised the Microtech plug in in conjunction with Microtech. Who worked out how to mod Power FC to work on Zeds. We don't all have lots of money like yourself to throw around on nitrous systems and Aqua mist mega dollar water injection, and $7000 Motec. My Power FC at reatail is $1495 with hand controller. Who pays for the two Power FC we smoked working out this stuff for the benefit of all? The hours of testing and refining the Microtech and now the days and days to work out and make jigs for the turbo kit? The parts we use for the water injection cost less than $100.

Shifters motor is brand new and very safe tune as still running in and does not have much ignition timing. More refining to be done and maybe valve timing. You have played with this and doctored things and think the facts are it is not quite as laggy as you show. You mention no proof or information and you make statements about yours that you do not back up like upping your hp HUB dyno reading each time you talk about it with NO PROOF. Yet you say we are hiding and have dyno reading and information on everything you ask or bring up. Only to then see how you can twist it. Shifter is a real enthusiast and has been around WAY longer than you and it is his pride and joy. I even tried to talk him out of spending what he did this round but being a passionate enthusiast works numerous jobs to pay for it. He does not have a silver spoon.
You flipantly and cruely state amoungst other things.

Compared to what you have spent or others it is a bargain. Again is your false inward failings pushing incorrectly onto others. It is You HAVE spent a fortune on yor car with a few results and ? hub dyno readings in reality less power than Shifters and lots and lots of issues and now all failed.

You say you made 500 hub hp??? hub dyno power and we could not. We did not try and did not have the time or funds to do the mega dollar way, and when we could and worked out how to do it cheap, we did and it. It was not years later but months later. JPC 300 also made more hp than yours and around same time and proved it at the track doing a 10 second pass, seconds faster than you and with full trim. By the way weight is not as important drag racing as it is circuit.

Many people PM and call and talk to me at the shop and frankly there are many who are sick of your crap. You are the king of false statements and purport them to be true and create confusion and will stand by facts that you know are wrong. You really should think about being a Sydney criminal lawyer and get paid for this sort of stuff. Actually no I think they would throw you out of court in a week as you would be sure to over do it.

 

Have you been taking english lessons ? You sure you wrote that

 

pretty good explanation there.. cant people just be happy for

one another, and if they arent keep their big mouth shut?

 

John, you are the only one who has ever threatened to sue anybody

Any member can vouch for that. The only time I have even mentioned the word "sue" in a post is when I have been taking the piss out of your post threratening to sue me. More lies, untruths and dodgy opinions from your posts. Keep talking as members are smart enough to see for themselves.

 

RE:

I'd prefer you guy's wouldn't, as funny as it is!

 

Well

To be exact it was Stealth ( Chris on the forum ) about eighteen months ago when youwere chewing someone out for little to no reason. Chris and I talked about it only recently again and had a laugh and many others commented and saw it.
If I haven't threatened it I should.

 

My $1.50

I've been saving my 1000th post for something real special.....

Clearly, you have lost your fingertip grip on reality and have descended into an abyss of irreversible lunacy. Are you always this ignorant, or are you making a special effort today? Well, you're certainly thoughtless; I just wish that you were keyboard-less, too. I am reminded of something relevant that Benjamin Disraeli said: "He was distinguished for ignorance - for he had only one idea and that was wrong."

Reading your post is less interesting than watching paint dry. If wit was spit, your mouth would be drier than a shallow well in an African heat wave. If I had wanted to talk to somebody with your personality, I would be at the damn pet store talking to the lizards. Maybe you wouldn't be such a Jerk-In-The-Box if didn't lack even the dim flicker of sentience needed to qualify as a imbecile; if your weren't so grossly fat that you have to put your belt on with a boomerang, or if you didn't have a face that makes people ask: "Damn, is it Halloween already?" Nah, of course you would.

In conclusion, why don't you go away and play Russian roulette with all chambers fully-loaded? You know how to load a gun dont you????.

You are sterling example of what happens when two people from the bottom of the gene pool decide to have children.

Regards

Ant

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