Hey everyone i have been contemplating this idea for a while.. and with so many idea running through my head at the moment i decided to see if this one was one that i should give a shot. I have been either thinking of a small nitrous system or a water/alky injection system for a while to really get the most out of my NA 5spd but i am leaning towards the Water/alky system. The basic principle of WAI is In gasoline engines, water and alcho directed in the intake can prevent extreme detonation so more power-producing boost and timing can be utilized. Water, with its high latent heat of vaporization, cools the intake charge and combustion. Methanol cools the charge and combustion, but also acts like an extremely high-octane fuel (some researchers claim as high as 120 octane), and adds more oxygen to combustion. More power Now i have searched the forum and have not really found any detailed articles about WAI but i think the only zed currently running this system in Australia is JP at UAS.. His system is more advanced than what i am planing with his using Direct Cylinder injection (correct me if wrong JP) What i am planning is to inject this W/A mixture at some point before the TB's. i originally planned it to be directed just after the AFM at the T-pipe but the WAI is less effective the further away from combustion. So i plan to get some new alloy intake pipes made up and get a lug weld onto them so i can screw in and out the Jets to deleiver the mix to the engine. im thinking 1 jet each TB. I also want to relocate the battery to the boot in hope to be able to fit a tank to house the mix in its place. 5L or so should do it. Z1 motorsports in USA sell a kit for about 700 AUS that includes deleviry to my door. http://www.z1motorsports.com/product_info.php?cPath=6_24&products_id=1576 Either i buy the kit or try making one myself. This WAI is to be used in conjunction with the tune i am building similar to 90TTZ but more advanced and specifically tuned for my car. This will help me run insane levels of advanced timing which i hope will pave the way for some significant gains in power and detonation resistance. All testing will be tuned on the dyno not far from my house. Im thinking to triger the system maybe either a manually device that will switch over the the "race" map and trigger the WAI. or an autommatice trigger used in conjunction with throttle postion and revs that will trigger the system say at 5000 rpm or WOT these are just estimations as i intend to look further into this.. Anyones input will be greatly valued Cheers James
So how are you going to be making boost with an NA? lol Sorry but I was just confused by that sentence!
sorry that was meant as in reference to how water injection works for both TT and NA as in it lets u run more boost or more timing.. but for me it will be used to run agressive timing
Right, ok I get you now! Without knowing what mods you have, to be honest water/alcohol injection wont benefit you as much as it would if you were turbocharged. The theory of it is, as air is compressed it heats up and when it heats up intake charge temps can get to a dangerous level where detonation may occur. Using water/alcohol, methanol injection etc lowers the temps therefore reducing the risk of detonation and yes allowing more aggressive timing to be ran. But with an NA you wont really see the benefits you're after I dont think. What sort of mods do you currently have? To see any sort of decent NA power without getting into ridiculous amounts of money modifications like intake, exhaust, headers, cams and maybe a squirt of N20 is what you want. Maybe you have these already though, I dont know. If you have your mind set on it, then give this a read. http://www.dawesdevices.com/howto.html Obviously it's not directly for your application but the principles still apply and you'll be able to take alot from it for your install.
Thanks for the link man ill have a read of it after im finshed with this busniess assignment..as far as modifications goes this will be done last as i am planing to buy another engine soon.. to PP the heads and rebuild them. and to have a mess around with the plenum and intake. also have tuned length extractors and lightened fly HD clutch, n one peice tailshaft.. just some basic stuf there. but there is more on the list. once all done a final decision will be made in regards to WAI. wont be happening for a while though just wanted to see everyones thoughts as its not been on here in detail cheers
You could always find a front cut from a TT and just plonk the dett in! Then you'll definately benefit from it...
would be more expensive. might aswell sell and buy the TT.. plus im on my P's and will be for another 3 years i imagine
Ahh well being on your P's with that new law will definately put the brakes on that! Oh well mod your NA as far as you can take it, and then buy a TT later aswell! lol And for all the people who dont really like NAs, myself included, then look at this beast... http://z32racing.50megs.com/Z/_photos/_20030524/page_01.htm Individual throttle bodies and all! Probably 100k spent on that car though, and I'm not being sarcastic either lol
The water injection should be setup to spray just pror to the throttle bodies. Im running an aquamist system on my ca for the same reason. Acts just like using hi octane fuel. Same princial applies to an NA although not as much benefit. Im not sure how much more gain you will get from advancing the timing as much as this will allow. JP will have to comment on his setup as its a bit confusing. Initially he said he was spraying before his throttle bodies but it was only spraying when not on boost Now he reports he is using his setup in the traditional manner. Several options for water injection with a few companies making specific gear. Or you can do a DIY method. Heaps of info on TTnet as its a popular upgrade there. Not quite sure whats the best way with an NA, as most of the triggers for the water injection run on boost pressure. I guess you can run one on the TPS maybe? I used Aquamist for my setup.
That is defiantly a thing of beauty.. ITB's with tuned runners, and a 500hp shot of NOS.. it dosent get much better when it comes to NA
Hi James Firstly JP runs the nozzles just before the TB's one each side. This is a good setup on a zed and the exact same way my nitrous system is hooked up The only better way to go would be a direct port kit which is being done on my cureent two build engines. This way you can trim each individual cylinder to precise temps however you also need individual egt probes and injector drive programming from the ecu which I have so its easy but on a stockish car not so easy and is more or less a guess. Go for the stock dual nozzle system fitted around 2- 3 inch before the TB's and you will be fine. Make sure the jest flow the same amount prior to fitting most kits have the same jet size but tests have shown the flow rates can vary wildly. JP found that while setting his up. His IT now sits around the 38 degree mark at the plenum which is awesome and thats using GT28RS turbos and up to 24psi of boost too on a 15 odd degree day. Not sure about legality though in NSW I know Nos is a BIG no no but not sure about Water injection (mention water only and might be okay) Good luck with it James Jas
Will defiantly have a poke on TT.net for there DIY guides.. as far as advanced timing goes. ill see how far i can advance it now with the tune im working on soon. Definatly interested to hear from JP in regards to this
Yes it was that pic of your NOS setup that showed me exactly where would be a good place to inject this W/A mix i saw it a week ago while trying to find info on Water injection.. thanks for posting up the picture. i will defiantly test the flow rates of the jets and hopefully the system can work aswell as possible with the right tuning thanks for the advice
I have a kit Its not installed yet but will be. It was bought some time ago in a large group buy on the tt.net forums. Its the Snow performance kit but with a few upgrades. We got nozzles to suit both TB's also got the safety cut (issues a 12v signal if water levels drop so you can drop the tune on the ecu or set off an alarm etc). It also came with the adjustable controller which increases the pressure/flow based on the level of boost pressure. We also got the upgraded pump So effectively its a stage 2 kit with extras. www.snowperformance.net
My Kit Stage 2 Snow Performance Kit 220psi Pump Upgrade Dual Nozzle Upgrade Safe Injection Module 375 Nozzles Total US$550 (inc shipping) It came with cabling and some tubing etc and weighed quite alot which was why the shipping made it rather expensive. That said the quality of the kit is excellent.
Buy Localy Can get the kit here in Sydney from full throttle performance. http://www.full-throttle.com.au/ Helped Ben fit the one to the slot car, pretty simple installation, dyno tuning it for performance is where its at though.
I also bought a kit in the TT-Net group buy. But decided to do the direct port water injection. 6 x 175 nozzles. Got everything I need this weekend (thanks DevilsZ on TTNet who is good guy to get the parts you need through) and a spare manifold. So we are going to set it up on the bench to make sure it does what we want. Will post pics as progress is made.
oooh that sounds interesting do keep me up to date on it, drop me a pm for my email too as it'd be good to know more about how you are doing it etc.
