That is exactly my point, mate...THREE!! Does that suggest to you that there is sufficient reason for an Australian business to set up to manufacture and market this specialist item? When I tried a similar exercise with the CHILI Brace, I sold just over 200 units(in four GB's)and it was very time consuming and unrewarding(even though I was also the manufacturer). There was simply no room for profit(if the price per unit was kept to an acceptable level for the end user)it is all governed by 'Economies of Scale'.:zlove:
Just because there is only three sales in this thread it doesn't mean that they won't be bought in the future. Ztoy didn't make his moulds to be selling them constantly and making massive profits off of them, why would this product be any different if someone made a mould?
c'mon Jamie -you're dreaming if you think he went to the trouble of making moulds and setting up a business NOT to make money. There is a trend on this forum to see some businesses as "benevolent" as in setup to offer savings to the consumer, and some as "malevolent" as in setup to take money from the consumer. Unfortunately this is a rather Disneyland view of the market place -all businesses are setup for one reason and that is to generate income. Doesn't matter if we are talking about small businesses operating primarily on this forum or global corporations such as McDonalds. They're all chasing the same outcome, the only difference is the scale. That rant out of the way the simple reality of this specific situation is that in order to offer cheaper, locally distributed items there needs to be sufficient demand for a business to import a container load of items. At present that demand simply isn't there and so buyers are left with two choices. Either wait until sufficient time has passed that demand has increased, or buy elsewhere as a private import. The retail margin that these are sold at simply does not allow a business to purchase and stock some twenty rear bars when only three look to be sold in the immediate future. The price retail price per unit would have to increase exponentially to finance such a venture, and that work either. Simply put we are dealing with a low retail margin/high sales volume model. If you change to low sales volume then the retail margin must increase to ensure viability. Low margin/low volume isn't an option when you are running a business and you have ongoing costs that must be met.
Sorry Rob, I should have been clearer in my post. Of course he made the moulds to make money, but not massive enough profits to live solely off of them and have that as his only mean of income(please correct me if I'm wrong, but it would seem foolish to use it as a sole income) We all know that 300's aren't incredibly popular in Aus like they are in the states and elsewhere, hence why we don't have many manufacturers of parts like this. The demand simply isn't here, there isn't enough to obtain a steady cash flow each week.
How much do you think is a "massive" profit? I know what UAS markup is on the Twinz product and I think you'd all be surprised at how little it is, particularly when you take out the portion that accounts for GST. Other things to consider are the cost of getting them here. Where do you store the timber shipping container that these are sent in? Do you have a forklift to move it around? Do you have facilities to dispose of it once it has been unloaded? Do you have a premises large enough to take delivery? UAS has all of the above -I don't, hence why the operation could never be handled by a backyarder. There is also the question of outlay. An order of twenty units costs in excess of $15000 which somebody has to pay upfront. Going off the sale price per bar from the last order you could get $2500 of that back selling three units but that leaves somebody $12500 out of pocket. A not insignificant amount. You could charge more per bar for those three to try and limit your debt a little bit, but even if you doubled your price there is still the small matter of $10000. John can't simply not pay his mortgage or his staff until that money is recovered... Alternatively let's say that you borrowed the money to get started, you can't just pay interest on a sum like that until the products are sold. Shit even if I was to run it out of my backyard and continue paying my regular expenses with my "regular" income while I sold off the bars, where would the money come from in the first place? I can tell you if I was to pull that out of my mortgage or savings account I would want a much greater return than UAS make on their markup. There's an economic reality that needs to be married to the idealogical goal of offering nice parts at reasonable prices. As I mentioned in this (or was it another TwinZ thread) people such as myself will happily pitch in their time for nothing so as to help the community in general, but there are still economic imperatives that must be considered. Or you go to a big vendor like Z1 who can secure a pre order of fifty units and buy up a few more for stock. With a preorder of fiffty Z1 are getting much better wholesale pricing than UAS (again I know this for a fact) so they have the option of passing this on to the customer, putting it into store stock, or making a little extra for their trouble. Again I won't presume to know how their business is run so I'll leave that one alone. Anyway as I was saying you can buy from a much bigger retailer with the benefit of buying cheap at your convenience, but then you have the added expense of getting it here. Plenty of options but it's not as simple as some would have you believe. It's certainly not as simple as our benevolent/malevolent business scenario
I do agree with what you are saying I was thinking more of someone who would do this on the side in addition to parts they already sell, rather than a full manufacturing company going for big profits - I do see your point though and so I agree with what you have said totally. Cheers for for taking the time to expand on your explanation further as it now makes sense. :zlove:
You list some extremely good points there Rob, in which I hadn't accounted for. I'm not whinging about the price, i'd buy one if UAS were to do it again. The fact that it is highly unlikely and unreasonable to place such pressure and financial debt on John will more then likely lead to us doing private imports of such products. All i'm saying is it'd be nice to have either a product "similar" to this one being produced locally, or an easy way to obtain an original. I'll be honest, I wasn't aware of the extent that it takes and can see why it'd be difficult for John.
If the numbers ever come up I will quite happily do my bit to help JP organise a group buy. I'm sure there will be howls of indignation from certain individuals but I'm getting better at ignoring them
Yep. Sure is - here in la-la land. The Beer is cold, great tasting pizzas and the dancing girls are hot as. Didn't ya know we are all in the loony bin trying to get you two to cooperate. The RPB button has gone in to meltdown due to overuse and abuse we are watching it bubble and fizz. We'll get back to ya request when we are ready.
Chili. Black Baz. As individuals, you're both acceptable and humble members of this forum. You're both good for a chat, a wealth of knowledge and clearly people that stand up for ones rights. Strongly. Together, you guys are shocking at time. Please vent your frustrations and personal abuse towards each other via PM's. As frankly, allot of members are getting tired of the mini wars you engage with each other, stemmed from the genuine inquiries within threads created. Its like watching Spielberg make a new saga. Either let bygones be bygones, or take it else where. Duke it out somewhere out of the harm of the children. Keep your statements relevant to the thread at hand and by now be wary that you're both going to see things differently at times. Further to this, becoming frustrated with each other, then casting feelers out to suggest that us the mods are wearing our rose coloured glasses towards the issue is a far cry. As soon as you two duke it out in any manner, its like googling Miranda Kerr. Its noticed with in 0.20 seconds with 29,400,000 results. RBP each other (when its working), PM us as you have been, do all that you need to make your point aware. But if in the end we see it as a mini war that needs no attention. Thats whats going to happen. I think i speak for a few people here. With what i write. Personally i have no negativity towards yourselves individually, so dont be taking this as a personal attack, i generalize on behalf of everyones comments over the times. But the time has come where it needs to reminded that its the freaking internet. Get over it. Be constructive. Not destructive. Back on topic....starting......NOW!
well, i cannot say that i did not give an advance "heads up' as to what was going on .. that was ignored as just a case of "jovial banter" ... there was nothing jovial .. and it was not banter. i too, am sick of the endless sniping .. hence my "jovial banter" post which somehow is not seen in the same light. OVER AND OUT FOR ME ON THIS ONE ...AGAIN, NOTHING CHANGES.
I would draw your attention to a post by my opponent on 8/7/12 at 9:14pm(and subsequently responded to by(gmbrezzo/Moderator)in which he began a personal attack on myself and JP at UAS. This was not "on topic" nor was it relevant to the discussion that was taking place at that time(it was not challenged by any Moderator as a "breach of the guidelines")and was allowed to escalate as a result. No interference, from Moderators, facilitated the escalation of this unsolicited slur(and it took the inevitable path of a full scale "War of Words"). Not my intention(as until then, the discussion had been relatively civil, by all concerned). Requests for the matter to be "nipped in the bud", went without response from the Moderator ranks(an all too frequent happening). Place the blame where it correctly needs to be placed, and there will be far fewer such problems. I make no apologies for the fact that I have had an ongoing friendship with JP & Family for more that 12 years(and I will not accept suggestions from anyone, that this is somehow improper, or suspicious). I will, however, reserve the right to speak-out against slanderous accusations and innuendo that frequently surface on this site, whenever UAS or JP are mentioned(it is no surprise that these comments always come from the same source).
Really? After sanouske's post you guys felt the need to bring up more crap? Perhaps it's worth looking at a system like 300zxclub seems to be starting to use whereby certain individuals aren't allowed to comment on certain topics to prevent these silly slapping matches from always popping up?
If you can disprove any of the comments I have made in response to sanouske's post, please do(taking this to PM has proved to be useless, as alluded to by my protagonist). I was involved with discussions about the thread topic(until the inevitable intervention of another party)if you can't see this, then you have a problem, not me.
I tried that, it didn't bring an end to the insults and innuendo that continued to be publicly directed at me(or my associates).
Chili -"I would draw your attention to a post by my opponent on 8/7/12 at 9:14pm" "a case of bad judgement ??? .. or birds of a feather, perhaps .... lol de lol." If you take that to be a personal attack, you react way too quick. If you had ignored it and not responded with: 09-07-2012, 12:46 PM. Chili -"I expected the usual verbal diarrhoea from our resident inebriate" Then things might not have flowed so far. On 09-07-2012, 10:48 PM. this was met with retailation from Black baz But instead if reacting with "who me?" goes on the attack and feels compelled to ramp things up. On 10-07-2012, 11:20 AM. Chili makes a comment to involve the moderators in this episode. "(it's also good to note that the Moderators of this fine forum are still enjoying their holidays)." towit we/I had been watching since the first apperance of Black baz and Chili in the same thread. Chili also continues to keep the argument alive with "Not taking your medication any more, apparently?" On 10-07-2012, 08:14 PM. Black baz then proceedes to slap me (and other mods) up the back of the head with, "that was ignored as just a case of "jovial banter" ... there was nothing jovial .. and it was not banter. Which brings me to the current post. Chili -"Requests for the matter to be "nipped in the bud", went without response from the Moderator ranks(an all too frequent happening)." Am I/we to respond with infractions/restrictions appon first sight of a post from either Chili or Black baz? Because whatever comment you two do will be met with an undertone comment, closely followed by a verbal slap back and forth, then followed by requests to mods to eradicate the other to the far corners of the earth. Am I/we to react at the slightest indisgression? such as your comment to ABZ300 on 29-06-2012, 10:47 AM. Chili -"Yes, you Wombat." ABBZ300, A person who is NOT an Australian animal who digs holes and eats leaves. I should ban the both of you for a short period to give the forum members a break. Unless someone places a comment which is a CLEAR breach we are not going to react on what someone else can construe as an attack, else we would be misjudging and assigning punishment in the wrong sector. Where do I/We draw the line? At Black Baz first comment? or your "wombat" remark. A 1/4 of the people in this thread could be infracted for their arguments for and against the diffuser if thats the case. John at UAS is a big boy and can defend himself if the need be. He doesn't need a bodyguard and he won't lose sales or business from any comments from a minority of comments. My comment: Both Black baz and Chili are thin skined, thick headed, elders that should be behaving in a better manner, and setting good example for our younger members. Is there enough innuendo in that statement? Was I too ambiguous? Sorry I meant to omit the names so everyone can read between the lines. The kardashians have been picked up for another season on TV. The Black baz and Chili show has been running for many more years than the kardashians have. It should have been syndicated and run on Austar for the masses to laugh at.
