Given that the piston to bore clearance for a stock VG30DETT engine is ideally 0.0018" if were at all likely to see as much distortion as the RB apparently had that's a good reason to be concerned. BUT it's interesting to note the factory manual gives a wear limit of up to 0.007" however the out of round limit is tiny in comparison (0.0004" I think?) & the maximum taper is also fairly small. It seems the factory engineers were fairly relaxed about actual bore size so long as it was essentially perfectly round & with no taper. Has anyone got some figures for bore distortion on the VG30DEs ? I'd be interested to compare what I have found. As for the dirty old V8 being a squishy squashy pile of crap when it comes to tolerances there's no surprise there, the basic engines were designed so long ago they were still using the sun to figure out what time it was :rofl:
sorry about my english guys, i'm italian just shifted here for work... i'm an engine reconditioner, and i can confirm that in performance engine that we built, both here and in italy, we used tq plate honing,i haven't a big experience with v8 engines, but my boss does, and for exemple he told to always tq plate hone engine like the ford cleveland v8, because of its very thin bore wall, otherwise it'll easily seized... this is an excepional case, but i don't have to tell what that means... and about wear limit as said from factory, i guess it's just a way for them to keep they're asses safe, in case of warranty's claims etc, if u work with that kind of tolerance, you know that's just madness saying these bullshits... i feel guilty when i can't get it nice and straight, and i'm talking about something like 3 tenth of thou over the wanted size... so 0.0003... could it be something more accurate than tq plate hone? yes, i guess is it better without a tq plate hone? no way... just my 2cent... cheers, Manuel
Yeah agreed, don't get me wrong there is no way in hell I would send a VG30DE out the door with bores worn to 0.007" oversize that thing would clang like hell. I was just pointing out the guys that built the car are pretty serious about out of round & taper, something a torque plate should help with.
Boring and Honing Using a torque boring plate is not a must just better to have. A cast iron short nuggety block I suspect won't flex much, although we will find out soon as our engine machine shop is going to measure and advise. They also use machine to hone accurate not by human guess. cervus thanks for your straight forward explanation, we got the point.[/QUOTE]just madness saying these bullshits...[/QUOTE]
In addition using ARP head and main studs it puts added load and potential twising of the block from increased clamp over factory bolts, adding to the need for tq plate for more accurate boring and honing.
Here's how we can settle this debate once and for all: 1: Bore and hone a VG30 block without using a torque plate. 2: Measure each bore with dial gauge at several points along the length of the cylinder. 3: Bolt heads and crank girdle to block using factory torque settings. 4: Re-measure each cylinder and check if bores are no longer round. 5: Repeat the above, expect using a torque plate in step 1. 6: Post up the results here.
Cummon guys lets stop the post pissing over who is the better automotive engineer .... now watch this video and tell me ... did this guy ... an Aussie btw .... use torque plates on his engine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIj2GVfua84&feature=related As an aside my Ford 427 double overhead cammer which puts out 650 RWHP was NOT built with a torque plate. She is so sloppy you can put your hand down the bores to check the big end clearances no problem. For all those out there advocating the absolute need for minute tolerance control how do you explain all those production line engines with minimal maintenance that just keep on keeping on ?????
High Tech Fun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmJDxH6xYKU&feature=related Do you think this guy was obsessive compulsive about theory .. or did he build a car to have fun in. I think all the guys trying to earn money off forum members throught their posts need to declare their interests before posting their "personal" theories about automotive engineering. Just throwing in my daily appreciating .02 centavos worth
Excuse me but what are we arguing about? if i build an engine, and the most if it's a performance engine, i want that everything will last and work as best as it's possible,that's why we use 5 different kind of honing stones for the same cylinder, to give it a perfect finish, that's why we tq plate hone, etc... if you ask me if an engine will work with .007 bigger bore than nominal the answer will be yes, but it won't last, it won't have the same power,it'll smoke etc, that's the matter... u can **** a cow, but it's not the same than a pretty girl...
i think you will find torque plate honing is particularly important when using forged pistons, which tend to expand a great deal more the the factory cast items. At the end of the day, for an extra 200 bucks or whatever you machinist will charge you, why the hell wouldn't you?
Here you go guys, here's the video of the torque plate honing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3r_eUGZWHo
Here is an extended version of the torque plate honing video which actually shows the difference with and without torque plate. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJEUhr8p-NI&feature=channel_video_title
Also a video of conrods and pistons being balanced for those who are interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJEUhr8p-NI
Thanks! Little sad he didn't actually show the crank actually being balanced, but he says in the end its in the next vid. Love seeing this sort of stuff, also because next week, when I send my Block + Bottom End gear to my Engine Shop, I was curious as to exactly how they would go about Balancing it. MoulaZX
