Silver Bullet

Discussion in 'Member's Garage' started by MagicMike, Sep 17, 2014.

  1. BLACK BEAST

    BLACK BEAST SLICKTOP TT R-SPEC

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    Yes
    when its not plugged in/wired up it works as a normal reg .

    previously had bad luck with turbosmarts so left it in .
     
  2. MagicMike

    MagicMike Moderator Staff Member

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    The return line sensor has been very helpful with logging.

    I've had some success with the fuelab pump in tank. Last night idled for at least 1.5hrs in the shed. Pressure was solid, and fuel temp stayed under 40, with a bit less than half a tank. This is with a known working Sard reg.

    Will test drive it tonight and see what happens.
     
  3. BLACK BEAST

    BLACK BEAST SLICKTOP TT R-SPEC

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    The other problem I had was because my setup spooled so quick when it came on boost the electronic reg wasn't ramping up the pump quick enough which also dropped fuel pressure .
     
  4. MagicMike

    MagicMike Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah I had read that people had issues as you say, coming on so fast that the reg couldnt react fast enough.

    Had some success testing tonight. Ztoy coming round tomorrow so we can spend some more time on it.

    Fingers crossed
     
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  5. kickerzx

    kickerzx Member

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    But of course you Mike, running a Link in modeled fuelequation and have a fuelpressure sensor hooked up to it, would have the ecu compensating for variable fuelpressures... Not that i recomend not fixing the problem tho... im just saying
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  6. MagicMike

    MagicMike Moderator Staff Member

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    Absolutely. It has been excellent, should see the logs of injector duty skyrocketing as fuel pressure drops!

    Sorting the pressure drop has been an ongoing saga. Went well tonight tho. Hopefully continues 2moro
     
  7. MagicMike

    MagicMike Moderator Staff Member

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    You can see the drop getting worse and worse
    received_10155321599729792.jpeg received_10155321599819792.jpeg
    received_10155321599774792.jpeg
     
  8. kickerzx

    kickerzx Member

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    The top one doesnt look to bad tho. Due to the FPR`s using springs (that are progressivly harder the more you compress it) some drop is natural..
    The last two though :eek:/
     
  9. MagicMike

    MagicMike Moderator Staff Member

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    All 3, within minutes of each other. The blue xy plots is the fpr return line voltage. 1 ish to 4.5 ish v, 1 being good flow and 4.5 being low flow.
    Supply issue.
     
  10. MagicMike

    MagicMike Moderator Staff Member

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    So everything was going good on Friday with Ztoy, until fuel temps reached ~45, then the pump started playing up again.

    Pulled fuelab pump and put the 460 back in, and it was going good until after a few pulls at ~15PSI, then fuel pressure was falling over.

    460 is on a stock hanger with a little bit of stock wiring left between hanger terminals and hanger plug. which I suspect is the weak link.

    So, new plan is to get another 460 and run 2 in tank, but swap them over to the modified hat with 10AN out, big terminals and fat cable.
     
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  11. MagicMike

    MagicMike Moderator Staff Member

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    20170924_165151.jpg So, after all of this........

    2 fuelab pumps, junk.
    1 fuelab regulator, junk.
    1 460 pump (the original lift pump), dying.

    After buying another 460, modifying the factory fuel pump hanger for 2 460's, complete with 60A terminals and applicable wiring in and out of the tank and 2 -6 bulkheads, it was established that the fuelab reg was rubbish, and the original 460 was dying (not wiring related as suspected).

    Using the fuelab reg, when the 2nd pump was switched on, fuel pressure jumped (and stayed) about 70kpa. With a borrowed FPR1200 (thanks Gav!!!), when switching the 2nd pump on, pressure increases less than 5kpa.

    Switched off the 2nd pump (the new one) altogether and retested with FPR1200, and pressure was dropping off again. Switched the primary pump over to the new 460 and retested. Perfect, solid pressure under all conditions.

    Changed back to fuelab reg and tested again, and was having pressure drop as fuel temp goes up. Removed remaining fuelab product, never to use them again.

    Bought an FPR2000 and another new 460, and just because it couldn't hurt, I slightly modified the plumbing from the rails to reg (to merge the rails into a -8 pre reg instead of merging into -6).

    Now the system goes:

    2 x 460's in tank
    2 x -6 from pumps into
    1 x -10 main feed into
    1 x -10 filter split into
    2 x -6 separate rails merge into
    1 x -8 into
    -8 Radium damper into
    -8 FPR2000 out to
    -6 return via cooler

    Now I have not yet driven the car since the FPR2000 installed, but it is looking good thus far, touchwood.
     
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  12. BLACK BEAST

    BLACK BEAST SLICKTOP TT R-SPEC

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    umm told you so :D

    lucky no engine damage from running lean at high rpm.

    I'm just upgrading my fuel system to After market industries sp1200 surge with 2 x 460's

    probably going to FPR2000 as well even though fuelab works fine on my setup.
     
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  13. MagicMike

    MagicMike Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah lucky. Modelled fuel is handy for that... Think the most rpm it has seen so far is 5000 on gate pressure, so not leaning on it too much. Can hopefully slowly build the fuel table up further now :)

    They have a revised design on the FPR2000 (at least) for 2017. Smaller body, not sure what else...

    AI stuff looks nice, not cheap! TAARKS is nearly half the price isn't it?

    Also, make sure you get the high pressure version of the pump. Ends with 274 not 267.
     
  14. ProckyZ89

    ProckyZ89 Senior Member

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    Glad it's sorted, that's a lot of up and downs on the fuel line.

    I run twin 460's in tank
    -6 into a single -8 to the filter> winfactory rail
    -8 return to the regulator(fpr2000) -6 back to tank,
    Splits into stock return and custom -6 return to tank to keep fuel tank balance
     
  15. tuff

    tuff Member

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    Good to see your sorted. Excuse the shocking welding but food for thought for you guys before going aftermarket external surge tanks if you have street cars. Thus us a little idea i picked up off my fabricator when he was fabbing a tank for another customer. Stainless swirlpot within factory tank, with drain holes around the top for fuel recirculation/overflow to main tank. Has an internal access plate which has a walbro 255 as the lift pump directly into the swirl pot from main tank, twin walbro 460 on the proflow hanger running from a single power feed via solid state relay and pulse width modulation from haltech ecu. No its not pretty, in hindsite I should have listened to my fabricator and just let him build me a custom tank but it will do the job perfectly. Also modified factory fuel level sender to fit where the t4 flange is on the other side. Involved a few love taps of the floor but who really carries a spare wheel now days.
    https://i.imgur.com/zRQmy8n.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/I0z98fX.jpg
     
  16. MagicMike

    MagicMike Moderator Staff Member

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    That should do the job. Long term im just going to do something with an in tank trap and see how that goes. It is a long way down the list now tho.
     
  17. BLACK BEAST

    BLACK BEAST SLICKTOP TT R-SPEC

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    Works out a few hundred dollars more than taarks but its 5 litres and has up to 3 pumps on the hanger if needed.
    don't really need the 264 pumps ,with a max 50psi fuel pressure +35 boost is 85psi and realistically is only on the dyno.. wont be running more than 30psi . at 21psi boost I'm already at 470rwkw
     
  18. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

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    How are you going to fit that surge tank? Countersink it into the boot floor?
     
  19. BLACK BEAST

    BLACK BEAST SLICKTOP TT R-SPEC

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    yes dropping the floor pan about 50mm
     
  20. MagicMike

    MagicMike Moderator Staff Member

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    I have done a few kms on the new setup, and all seems very promising.

    Now that I have 2 new pumps, at idle when I switch on the 2nd, pressure jumps about 25kpa (so a couple of psi), but this is more that I would like. Along with that, there have been numerous reports of staged pumps with ethanol going bad (the secondary pumps), as they sit there doing nothing most of the time.

    Considered just running them both flat out all the time, but I really want to try and control the fuel temps. So I've started wiring in a 100A SSR that the ECU can pulse to control the voltage (pump speed). This greatly simplifies the wiring in the boot too (battery in the boot) and removes the 2 normal relays, and removes the need for the OEM fuel pump relay, but still retains the fuel pump prime, and the safety functionality (0 rpm = pumps off)

    Worth a try for the price.

    Capture.JPG
     

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