For some reason the numbers I quoted seem to be getting taken as hp at the wheels. They are flywheel numbers. Stock rods will do that as will all other internals. 700hp on the ground, no they wont come close. 700hp at the flywheel, yes they can. 700hp is only 520kw, which will be about 400rwkw give or take. Would I recommend it? No. Would it be reliable? Yes with careful tuning and ALL correct bolt ons. Yes the parts will be close to the edge, but they will do those numbers. There will just be zero margin for error. The point of all this is the VG30 will make the same numbers as a VQ30 with all oem interals. As I said earlier, a vq30 is a step sideays, not forward. A vq35 or 38 will be a much better option. The extra capacity gives the engine rome for more power with the same mods.
If you have trouble changing the spark plugs on a VG30, you are completely and utterly mechanically retarded. Since you've built a drift z32 with an LS1 conversion, I know that's not the case, so it looks like you're just talking shit to make the LS1 look good. As for the power, I doubt many LS1s make 240rwkw with just an exhaust and tune, especially the earlier ones. Why would you compare it with an NA vg30 of all things? The LS1 has close to double the displacement. Did you conveniently forget to mention the TT? -Kirill
Hi Kirill, Most of the talk on this forum has been about the VQ30, VQ35 and VQ38 and even the Nissan V8, and talk about quad cam vs pushrod and pushrod being prehistoric technology. All I am saying is the LS1 is a cheap alternative and on a manual with exhaust & tune will make 240rwkw, whereas a stock VG30DETT makes around 180rwkw. Most of the things you have to do on the VG30DETT require a lot of things to be removed from the engine to work on it, or the engine removed to do jobs that are simple to do if an LS1 is fitted. eg unless you grind sections from the plenum, you have to remove it to take the injectors out. There is a lot of things that have to be removed to get the plenum out. How much does it cost to remove the turbos so they can be serviced? How much does it cost to get the gaskets changed on the turbos if the exhaust is leaking? How much does it cost for a 100,000km service? How much does it cost to replace the water hoses under the plenum when they start leaking? How much does it cost when one of your vacuum hoses springs a leak and they have to try to find it? How much does it cost to get the engine rebuilt? A conversion is not for everyone, and no matter whether you are doing a conversion, re-conditioning the VG30 or building it stronger, it is going to cost a lot of money and future costs such as the 100,000km service means the cost is always ongoing. Fitting other types of Nissan engines, which makes the engine bay as complicated as the VG30, means that you will also have high ongoing maintenance costs. The LS1 makes plenty of power standard, is strong, and is a lot simpler to work on. You can see the ground underneath the car which means there is more room to access all parts of the engine. Ongoing costs are a lot cheaper, and upgrades are a lot cheaper. Power is only limited by your budget and $10,000 worth of upgrades on an LS1 will yield twice as much power as $20,000 spent on a VG30DETT and be a lot more reliable and cheaper to maintain. I know there are a lot of purists out there, but as the cars get older (they are around 20 years old now) less people are going to be willing to spend the money on having the VG30DETT reconditioned, or fit new turbos because of the cost. Therefore more and more 300zx's will end up at the wreckers. That's my 2 cents anyway Cheers Greg
Ah sorry, my earlier post was a little harsh and you do raise some valid points. I must have forgotten that this topic started as an engine swap thread, so the points you mention above stand. My main point was in relation to power / cost, as for the cost of conversion to LS1 + exhaust + tune to net 240rwkw would exceed the cost of getting the vg30dett to 240rwkw. I'm not a "purist" per se, but you have to admit, the overall cost saving of running an LS1 in a zed would not apply to everyone; you run a dedicated track / drift car, so you would be spending more time replacing / tweaking parts under the bonnet. The cost saving is proportional to the amount of time spent on mechanicals. Majority of zed owners do not change their turbos very often, or even at all, seeing as the stockies are good for close to 300rwkw (which on the road is plenty for most people). -Kirill
240rwkw could be done on aTT for the same or less than a exhasut and tune on a LS. Also i dont accept teh argument at all that 10k ona LSx would be better than 20k on a VG. LSx motors are great adn its clear to see thats where your loyalties lie, but i think you are flat out pulling numbers out of your arse at this point . Us real Zed mechanics arent fazed by the fact that you cant see the ground through the bonnet and most of us bought these cars for the entire package incuding one of the finest engines ever to leave japan. Frankly id be embarrased to own that abomination you call a zed. So ill take my " difficult to work on" zed with its "inferior " engine and my impeding 100k service thats 98,000kms away . over that V8 powered POS of yours
Regardless of who is right, who is wrong, or who needs a temperament adjustment, in my opinion this is the BEST thing I have ever read in a 'flame war'. 10/10 on the maturity scale Tom.
You are also getting an engine that is NEW compared to pushing an engine that can be as much as 20 years old a bit further. I see both sides of the arguement and there is nothing wrong with either option. I will personally be replacing my vg30 with new engine (probably an LSx) rather than rebuild. I will have a new engine, easy to work on, cheap and easily available parts etc... Cheers Rob
I MAY have a slightly different point-of-view... I'm pretty noob at this stuff, but if my 15 year old NA has MAJOR engine problems (touch wood), I'll be replacing it with another NA. But that's because this is Aus delivered, and I want to keep it as stock as possible, regardless of all the valid reasons mentioned above for a swap to anything else. </2c>
Usually when people are considering an engine transplant, it is because the one in their car has sh!t itself, or is on the way out. My 300zx had a broken rod when I bought it - hole through the sump. I paid to have it all machined and checked out, forged pistons, H Beam rods, valve springs, balanced, bigger turbos, bigger injectors, Apexi Computer, adjustable cam gears, alloy pulleys, under drive pulley, yada, yada, yada. I spent at least $20,000 by the time it was built and tuned, but the mechanic that built and tuned it let me down badly and it shit itself, with a piece of the ring going through the brand new turbo and over revving the other one. This engine did not get to race once, it had problems in practise each time. In the end, because it was a race car and was on the track (even though it did not get to compete) the mechanic would not fix it. Thats when we converted it. So, lets say someone comes in with a 300zx TT and the engine has sh!t itself, how much to re-build his engine? Lets say it had a broken ring as well which went through the turbos and stuffed them as well, how much would this cost - drive in drive out? If you are like the usual 300zx mechanics, you will say I can't tell you as there are too many variables and we charge $xxx/hour, plus this, plus that, etc. When the customer picks up his car the repair bill is twice or 3 times what they expected. So don't give me bullsh!t, give me a rough price of what Forum Members would expect to pay. Now, lets say I want a guaranteed 300rwkw. How much is that going to cost me from my stuffed engine position? Now, lets say I wanted a guaranteed 450rwkw. How much is that going to cost me? Of course, because these engines keep you in business. You charge by the hour and the more hours it takes to repair, the more you get paid - these are your "Cash Cows". Lets face it, there are more mechanics that will turn a 300zx away, than there are that will repair them, so you can charge even higher prices. Simple things like a thermostat would take 30 minutes on an LS1 by the time it is put back together and refilled with coolant would probably take 2 - 3 hours on a VG30DETT. Leaking water hoses on an LS1 would take 15 minutes to replace, on a VG30DETT you have to do a plenum pull, cleaning injectors on the LS1 you have to remove the engine cover and coil packs to get to them - 15minutes, on a VG30DETT unless you die grind the plenum to gain access, it is a plenum pull job. For all you Members out there that are reading this thread because your engine is on the way out, and are thinking about a conversion, remember one thing. I do not own a mechanical workshop and I do not make my living by working on the VG30DETT engines. We only do exhaust systems, so we really do not care what engine you have fitted !!! I was in the same boat as all the rest of you and I had to rely on mechanics to do the right thing by me, and I got let down badly. Some of the mechanics on this forum are good at what they do and have achieved great results - but please ask them how much to get these results. Some people on here, and other forums have spent more money on their setup than the cost of a brand new V8 Commodore. There is a "Slot Car" on here that if he counted all the labour (especially at his charge rate) as well as parts he could have bought a new Ferrari. Remember, this is an "Engine Conversion" thread, and everyone has there own point of view, and there are all types of conversions that can be done, and have been done. Lets see if the "Mechanic" has the balls to put up real prices. Cheers Greg
I have nothing against engine swaps, quite the opposite in fact. I am the administrator of a forum dedicated to engine conversions. I have been involed in at least 20 engine conversions. that is not the issue. Also you will notice i have never said a bad word about LSx series motors or any other motors for that matter. Cant say hte same for you. I know the benefits on an LS motor and yeah i like them. But they are not suited to everyone, a turbo'd LS cannot be road registered in a ZED, and most of us here drive road cars. most of us here bought a TT cos we wanted a turbo car. If i wanted a V8 coupe i would have bought a monaro. Just because your mechanic let you down doesnt mean there is anything wrong with VG engines in general and thats the issue i have with your comments. your motor didnt last one race, how many races did Fleet's last? the slot car? time will tell with Rob's too but i dont think we will see it blow up any time soon. In one of your previous posts you said , thermostats, spark plugs are easy to change on a LS1. if you have trouble changine these items on a VG then you've got more problems than i thought. I dont charge by the hour, my customers will tell you that, i have a flat rate for anything i do and most of my prices are listed on this website in various threads. Again you are generalising when you say that more mechanics turn them away. there are alot of reasons why a mechanic would " turn away" one of these vehicles. i dont think that is the engines fault. Me posting prices is irrelevant in this situation and its got nothing to do with having the balls to . as i have lower operating costs than most mainstream workshops so there is no point. If you want to talk numbers from a blown engine point i stand by the fact that it would cost more to buy a LS1 conversion package, fit it and n/a tune it than it would be to rebuild and modify a Vg30DETT to the same power level.
I accepted when I bought my 300zx (even though it is NA) that I was going to be up for a packet in maintenance because I did my research. The car was bought at $14k and has cost me another $14k again in upkeep and mods and still needs a re-spray and interior re-trim. Spose what I am getting at is, when the engine dies on me I will have to sit down with a few mechanics and get quotes for repair/rebuild, TT conversion, LSx conversion etc... and then weight up which one is going to be better for me. I may think the LSx conversion is in the lead at the moment, but a better fitting/newer/cheaper engine could also come up in that time or come down in price Cheers Rob
Drive in, drive out 450rwkw from blown vg, $25,000 to $30,000 with all supporting mods and dyno time. Drive in, drive out NA to TT, including box and doing it all as per factory, $5,000 to $8,000 plus above to get to 450rwkw. Drive in, drive out LSx 6speed, supplying new engine and box, $20,000 to $23,000. Drive in, drive out LS1 to 450rwkw, $12,000 to $15,000. If you have a TT and it is in reasonably good condition, its not worth it. If you have an NA it is a good option to go LSx. I building a TT around this power level and am doing the ls1 turbo conversion, so these prices are fairly accurate representations of labour and parts I have put into both. 450rwkw from an ls1 na is a very angry engine, not practical on the road. 450rwkw from a turbo or charged ls1 is easily done and very driveable. But also brings rego issues. The same from a vg is quite driveable. An engine conversion isnt for everyone, those of us like Rollin and myself that do all the work ourselves get out of it alot cheaper. The vg is a very good product. It is not too bad to work on when you know your way around. My LS1 tubo will be alot harder to maintain than the vgtt was due to the turbo and all components needed to have it turbo. I havent got the freedom like you do Thunder with no rad support as i will not cut open the car. If your considering a conversion talk to alot of people who have done one or own a car with a non oem engine to get a good mix of pros and cons. Very rarely will a converted car behave like it did previous. Why am I doing it? I like a challenge.
In QLD a turbo-ed LSx is a matter of how the engineer interperets the code of practise. Taking it literally you can have a turboed 7L+ in a Z32, just need 2 mod plates... Looking back on my half finished conversion I wish I went the LS1, if the 6 speed fit properly I would have... No pansy auto's for me (sorry Eric )
Just curious - what are the problems with fitting a 6 speed - is it just too large for the transmission tunnel?
you need to find room for a clutch master cylinder and booster which can be tricky but if you are willing to have the firewall and trans tunnel re-made its no dramas. fitting an LSx is easier with an auto but by no means impossible with a manual.
