Hey, guys, i've just completed a full tear down of my engine, reco'ing my heads (from the top), replacing all gaskets and whichever hoses needed replaing, new w/pump and other 100K service items etc.. Now, on Sunday I went to turn her over (after 4 months - it was a nervous moment) and it didnt go.. so i've got a couple of questions for you guys, but I'll give as much detail as possible first. Have got good fuel pressure, and dont think I have any airlocks in the fuel lines. Have had injectors ultrasonically cleaned All electrical connectors have been spreayed with cleaner and scrubbed as much as possible New NGK Iridiums installed Symptoms: Starter motor turns engine but it sounds like its sparking incorrectly or at the wrong the wrong time. I know the timing has been set correctly (double checked it a ka-zillion times) It sounds like its backfiring, just a slight popping noise, possible when exhaust valves are open? The only thing I can think of is that the CAS could be out. The guys that reco'd the heads said that the lug on the end of the LH cam where the CAS goes had snapped off.. dunno if they did it of not, I tried to line up the CAS with the spline on the camshaft correctly, but if I didnt quite get it could this be the problem?? Any help appreciated. Cheers. Daniel
I'd reckon that's your problem. I can't remember exactly what it looks like, but Blade had the same thing happen to his. Without the lug I don't think the CAS will locate properly. Can anyone else confirm?
The CAS controls spark and injector timing....>> If you don't have it lined up correctly then you will get the symptoms you describe.
If the lug is broken off then you can misalign the timing very easily I have just put mine all back after overhauling the engine and was careful to ensure that it was all ok but if the lug is gone well misalignment would be pretty easy. I would rip it out carefully noting the position and have another shot at it until you get it right. When you say its okay fuel pressure wise you do mean that your getting 36 psi out of that hose that goes across the top of the plenum. One of the problems with modern cars and their injectors is that if the fuel tank is not kept reasonably full while the car is in mothballs for a few months the fuel pump ends up suffering from corrosion and quite often fails or has a low output. Either of these 2 being at fault will give you the symptoms you are experiencing regards John
Another thought.. I did mark where the lug should line up to the CAS and fitted them together by lining up the marks, so I thought I had it right, but I think I'll whip it off and double check. The other thought i had was that it could possibly be a faulty wire/connection? Typicl of most aging Zeds, the loom was fairly brittle when re-installing, how common/likely is it that a wire could have broken? Is there any way of determining exact cause through the on-board diagnostics?? Dan.
Just did ECU Diag. According to tech article, just shorted the Consult diag. socket and got fault code 23 (2 long, 3 short flashes). It doesnt seem to be listed in the ECU dianostic list of codes??? Any ideas?
Correction.. Rechecked the flashing lights on the dianostic...turns out I've got fault codes 11 and 21, hence how I thought I had 2 flashes and then three flashes. So is either CAS, PTU or broken wire. When I first turned the ignition to ACC after having all fuel lines etc off (ie: no pressure) the fuel pump didnt pressurize the lines. Is this normal?? I then disconnected and reconnected the CAS and upon reconnection I heard the something (fuel pump, or maybe even cam solenoids?) activating.. Could it be more likely that its wiring in the CAS connector then, as I was pretty careful when lining up the CAs to the camshaft..
Yes the Pin in my CAS also snapped Thanks to a little highway romp with Gimpboy coming back from a cruise :LOL: Although symptoms were, Extremly erratic idle that would be all over the place, and although the car would hit full boost according to the AVCR, it would feel like the car had absolutly no power at all. Timing was diagnosed at 0 degrees because of the pin, options were to replace both the cam and the CAS, however luckily I had the Haltech E6K engine management, so I was able to use their kit to eliminate the CAS completly, by running magnetic and electronic pickups around the crank pulley, making the CAS redundant. Doing it this way cost me about $1300, doing it the other way by replacing all the parts even with 2nd hand ones was going to cost roughly the same (only to worry about it happening again in the future) which is why I opted for the other way, which won't unfortunatly be feasable for you. If the pin has snapped, unless you can do all the work yourself, then your looking at a very expensive repair bill, as half the engine has to be taken apart. Good luck
Hopefully i wont have to.. Ive just had the heads off for a full reco, so dont really wont to pull it all apart again to replace a cam.. But I dont think I'll have to as its just the locater pin that snapped, the male sprocket on the cam is still intact, as is the female on the CAS, so they should still mate together properly, just that without the locator pin it could be harder to line up. I stripped the wiring loom last night to check for broken wires leading into the CAS connector plug, but they all look in reasonably good condition, cleaned all the plugs etc.. but still not able to get her to fire.. If the CAS is only just out, by say 15 degrees, then wouldnt it still turn over, but just run really really rough?? Also, as I have the series 1 PTU and have error codes, 11 and 21, could this also be the culprit.. If a PTU is stuffed, will it turn over at all? I think tonight I'll pull the CAS off, check that its properly aligned and if it still doesnt work, I think I'll cut open the PTU.. Cheers
If the PTU is dead Then the car wont start at all, it would be nasty luck to have the PTU and the CAS go both at the same time And if the pin is gone, you are going to have to pull half the engine apart
A couple of answers for you>> the fuel pump comes on momentarily to pressurise the system and then is switched off by the ECU until the engine starts. The pump will only do this when the ign is "ON" and not in "ACC" position. The cam solenoids are normally off and only powered at certain rpm in order to release the oil pressure held in the camshaft so the reationship between the gear and the shaft can change. The only purpose for the pin in the cam is to enable correct alignment of the CAS and from what I can see it offers no other purpose. The splines on the CAS and in the cam are there to transmit the drive loads and not the pin. Sure if the splines wear the pin will have a load put on it and it may shear but ordinarily the splines transfer the loads. Therefore you dont require it and I certainly would not change a shaft for it. Make sure the splines have a little grease applied when it goes back together. By the way who did the head overhaul and did they remember to keep the hydraulic lifters face up because if they didnt the oil inside leaks out of them and you will have similar problems due to the large clearance between the cam and valve. regards John
The saga continues... That wass my line of thinking regarding the indexing pin Luig, I have been reading about on tt.net about some 90 model Zeds having an incorrectly amchined LH cylinder head, which causes wear on the cam/CAS spline which then creates hesitation as the splines slip past each other, but i think the splines mate correctly, just that the indexing pin isnt there to help line it up. i'm not quite sure what you mean re: the hydraulic lifters, but I do know that the cam lobes made good contact with them prior to reinstalling just a few days ago.. :unsure: The fact is that the car wont even fire, which leads me to question the PTU, as if the CAS was out of alignment or slipping then surely the engine would try to fire.. After reading the tt.net articles I sure hope it's not a case of replacing the LH cam for one little index pin.. :unsure: My knuckles can feel the pain already..
As long as the spline is still in good condition...>> then you don't need to replace the cam. If your CAS is out by 15 degrees, the engine should run but not run to it's potential. Being out by 15 degrees will not cause a code 21. A dirty CAS connector would. I would recommend cleaning the connectors on the CAS and PTU. Also see if you can borrow a PTU off a member near by.
Re: As long as the spline is still in good condition...>> Thanks IB, that was what I had originally thought about the index pin, and I was very careful to line up the cas splines, so worst case it would only be out by 15deg, and like you said should therefore run, but it doesnt turn over at all.. I have cleaned all connectors for both PTU and CAS, still no fix, so I think the PTU is the next stop for me..
Re: "Doesn't turn over..."??? Sorry IB, you are correct. The starter motor cranks the engine without a problem, there is just no ignition.. Should I pull a spark plug and coil pack out and see if the plug is sparking out of the cylinder?
That couldn't hurt....>> Could also give you an indication on the condition of the PTU. One other thing to be aware of, once the plugs get wet in one of these things they will not fire until dried out. Cranking the car over wont do it either.
That problem with the heads would have shown up a long way ago before now so I would be surprised if that was your problem. One quick way to check the PTU is pull out the ignition coils and the plugs and assemble them so that you can see the plugs electrode when you crank the engine....making sure that 1 you pull the fuel pump fuse 2 ensure that the base of the plug is touching the engine case. Now if it doesnt show any signs of a spark on each plug dont race off and buy a new one just yet...see if you can borrow someone elses to try just to make sure its not the power supply to the PTU. As for the lifters if there is no oil in them they will collapse when the engine cranks over and there will be a signifigant change in your valve timing and will almost certainly misfire etc.:thumbsdown: regards John
I'd pull no. 1 coil pack to check, and then you should be able to see how far out the timing is as well.
