2" - 2.5" boost pipe kits, THE TEST

I'm not testing the throttles or the intercoolers though
That was never the point, the idea is to test the pipes themselves and leave every other part out of the equation as best as we can.

I can do a run at ~95% throttle if you like? that MIGHT simulate stockers :rofl:

 

2nd, don't waste the time and money unless you can do it properly. Full 2" versus full 2.5" to include TB and intercoolers!

 

I can't I'm to busy wasting time on dynos :rofl:

Truth is I'm waiting on a shipment from AMS, then I can rework and sell sell sell

You might want to wait until I have tested for results on the dyno first though :zlove:

 

For the second time YOU are not welcome in this thread.

 

no no this might be ok as a test . it will show the difference between the 2 and 2,5 so long as nothing gets changed . the T/B will not make any difference at his power level. it will give an indication on whats going on , so it should help ..

im going to make a prediction and say they his power level ( rwkw) will drop about 5+ rwkw ( at his set psi ) but when he turns up the boost it will make more peak power with the 2.5. Everything we are about to see will start happening up top over 4000 rpm , his bass peak rpm will go up by about 500 or 1000 rpm. so where he started to make power say at 4000 rpm , he will start making the power at 4500 ( lag ) (these rpm numbers are not accurate) just an idea what should happen . my prediction )

P.S all i can ask from mugs , is to not play with or change anything and just do a back to back test , with the 2 and then 2.5 or reverse ( however its set up now )

people be warned , this test is done on mugs's car so the results will change when you put this set-up on your car ( every car is different )
but its a good indication on what will happen with his tune/ boost / mods/ etc etc , with his car ....

 

Interesting, this is similar to what I am thinking.

I wont be running any more than ~18PSI today as there isn't a safe fuel supply for more, any results obtained will only be relevant to power levels around or under ~ 350RWKW

I expect slightly more lag and no significant gains in power.

As soon as the boost controller is used that becomes another variable & could throw results off wildly, really to test at higher boost levels the only way would be the have higher set wastegate springs & run without a boost controller. If someone wants to paypal squillions of dollars I can do that but otherwise I'm going to keep it simple and costs effective

 

It's alright Rob my pizza is cooking for lunch then it's back to the dyno - it is another dyno but the same model. We do have to start again with some base power runs etc but hey if it takes that to back up what I have said/what we found then so be it

I'm going to have a play with the inlet side of things while I am there - some preliminary tests

 

I'm surprised nobody has brought up bubblewrap or AMS...yet

Abraham

 

You expect a pressure drop across the coolers. Ofcourse you do. A drop in temperature results in a drop in pressure. If the cooler is rubbish and resisting flow then you will also see a drop in pressure due to the reduced flow aft of the cooler. You need the temps to measure density change then. That's the key of the whole thing.

E, fluid 101 is that a gas flow is measured by density, taken from both pressure and temperature.

The bottom line is that pressure is a resistance to flow. Not a direct indication of it. Big flow comes from no resistance.

Turbo output from the manufacturer is measured in CFM and not PSI.

The test may or may not find anything. But so far no comparison has been made.

Kodus to Glenn for doing the work.

 

Right Friday afternoons results:

I will start with the peak gains to give the fan boys a ray of (false) hope

With the boost controller off so running at waste gate pressure we did actually see a rise in peak power from around 280Kw to around 300kw.
Peak gain was ~22Kw when the 2.5" kit was hooked up externally. IE: the kit was on the car not in the car - FAR less heat to be soaked in to the pipes etc due to not having the radiator right next to it.
No change in MAP pressure.

With the boost controller on and set to 16PSI we had 347.1Kw on the stock pipes and 366.7Kw on the 2.5" system - a peak gain of 19.6Kw.

Both of these results were repeatable to within a couple of KW on four runs each setting.

Now for those of you jumping up and down saying "I told you so I told you so" here comes the bad news (for you):

Although there was a gain measured over the complete duration of all the runs with the bigger pipes fitted it was actually only around 2 - 3Kw and this is easily explained by the pipes not sitting next to the radiator and the intercoolers having a shite load more cool air passing through them.
The only significant measurable gains were had beyond 6000RPM, boost actually came on LATER not sooner as some may claim.
Peak power gains were at 6500RPM and were on the way back down to the same levels as without the pipes immediately after.
Essentially we tested a gain between 6000RPM that peaked @ 6500RPM and would be gone again by 7500RPM, there was less gain on the higher boost than what there was on the lower boost, the bulk of the gain we logged could be explained by much cooler pipes due to the kit not being in the engine bay.

Conclusion from today: VERY surprised to see the gain right at the top RPM but not surprised by the results overall, I can't post pics of the graphs as there is an issue with the printer on the dyno and sadly the plot from the 2.5" runs is barely visible to the naked eye so will NOT show if posted here. The printer is due to be sorted soon so I will post them when that is done. I COULD run over the graph with a pen but I have no doubt this would only cause more trouble than it's worth.
No pressure drop readings from today as this dyno does not have dual MAP sensor logging ability, the dyno from yesterday will see me back in the near future for more progress on this testing.

So far though it's looking pretty much MYTH BUSTED - sort of, we tested a gain but not what has been claimed & the test swayed towards better results in any case.

Notes for the argumentative types: Yes todays tests were done on another dyno, we started from scratch and focused purely on HP output rather than anything else - that is the point after all to make more HP.

 

Flow

I'm probably wrong but just thought I'd throw this out there for discussion.

I'm no fluid dynamics expert but the pressure not dropping at higher power may not be an indicator of inability to improve efficiency. I would have thought that the the larger pipes will still flow more air at a given pressure than smaller pipes, and as a result the turbos will end up producing a cooler intake charge due to not requiring as much pressure in order to generate the same flow rate - resulting in a more dense charge due to temperature, hence more power at the same pressure. There may be further pressure drop improvements too I'm sure.

 

If the pipes weren't in the car where were they? How was it all setup?

 

As I have mentioned this actually gives an advantage to the 2.5" pipes for the test AND if you factor in there are a couple of sections of pipe missing as well - not looking so crash hot for the 2.5" gear.

 

Hahahhaha wth. Thats awesome.

Considering this, would say Water/methanol injection help? Just thinking out loud.

 

not having seen if the results are posted yet I wish to make a prediction. I feel the power curve will show more lag in the boost and that there is potential for a larger difference between manifold and turbo pressure. I also want all those asking for tb's to be changed to shut up, this test is not about a full system change but about the difference between 2" and 2.5" pipes.

 

so my prediction above was not perfect. there was some extra lag but that is a given because the volume to be pressurized has increased, as such the fact there is an increase of HP at top end at any given boost level to me points to the volume of air entering the engine increasing. 2.5" pipe is 1.25 times the size of the 2" so at standard atmo pressure there is 1.25 times the air in the pipework. on boost the actual amount of air going through the maf and into the engine will also be more (I do not know if the equation is linear or not) more air going in is the equivalent on the smaller tube to more boost get the same volume of air and fuel entering the engine. This would equate however to more power but at a higher charge temp and potentially beyond the turbos pressure capabilities.

 

Sorry, but this turned out to be as fkd up as a soup sandwich. You took this to 80% but didn't put the extra 20% effort in that would make this a complete & comphrehensive comparison.

Too much is inferred, too many variables and interpretations, and too few tests to draw an absolute conclusion.

I would keep compiling data and keep learning while doing so.

 

Complain more man. If you think he did so shit do it yourself.

At any rate, It's a good start for a comparison at the LEAST.