More Info Guys I have two minutes or less to answer about 100 posts so here's as much as I can squeeze in until tomorrow turbulence Good point and the most sensible issue raised so far. These dumps feature an internal divider like Nismo (but what would they know???) GTR dumps. Best of both worlds. OK that is all 'til tomorrow
Good point but... Perhaps the bellmouth type does actually flow better... I'm sure Rob wouldn't suggest this off the top of his head. I'd like to think he has more cred than that. From what I've read it looks like the divorced type would suit a street car better but the bellmouth may actually deliver more top end and be better suited to a track car such as the slot car. No one has shown that divorced dumps flow more than the bellmouth type, only that the flow is less turbulent which in turn results in a better spool.
Thats what i've been getting at Bellmouth probably does result in more power overall. But the divorced type (done correctly) would result in better spool as well as decent power but not as much as the bellmouth. Compared to stock both would be alot better though.
Perhaps it does, and i know Rob is knowledgeable. Most of the opinions and evidence on this forum in relation to split dumps are based on the tuneagent style dumps, which in my opinion have more that one flaw. Split dumps are good for top end flow too, so we shouldnt generalise all split systems becuas eof our experience with the tuneagent style. I think we are running into another area, like the FMIC vs SMIC debate. The only thing i ask is that while promoting one product you dont bag another.
thats good that they have an internal divider, that is the correct way to do it as i said in another post
where did this idea come from that split dumps are only good for reduced spool times ? This is only true when the pipe sizes are too small. A well designed split system will flow well at the top end too
I'm not saying that they don't give you top end power, I beleive they do especially the newer style. The older tuneagents didnt have the divider far enough away IMO. But I do beleive that the bell mouth might flow more and thus give more top end power.
The turbine pipe was way too small on t he tuneagent style, thats for sure. and that wasnt the only fault so i agree with you there
I'm not bagging anything or anyone. Your own knowledge is something I have used in the past, as well as the knowledge of many other members. All I was suggesting is we don't be too quick to bag this product and now it seems no one will because now we all know it is a hybrid type dump, using the best of both types mentioned. Hell, I love happy endings lol
More info take 2 OK here goes... please don't be offended if your specific post hasn't been responded too Re: Turbulence As previously posted these dumps feature a very thin internal divider to reduce turbulence. This is different to the bulky bolt-on divider as found in tuneagent dumps and also different to the two separate pipes type found on CES or Specialtyz dumps (or AMS haha). Nismo use this type (internal divider) of dumps on GTRs. Best of both worlds ie bigger opening AND reduced turbulence. Re: Testing As originally stated UAS have found on other cars (GTR and Stagea) that at big hp levels split flange dumps are restrictive and that changing to a bellmouth dump has increased power levels. This is what lead to the R&D that went into developing these pipes as bellmouth rather than split flange. The pipes were originally developed to overcome poor fitment and clearance issues with CES dump pipes on Shifters car. No I cannot provide back to back testing as huge amount of time involved and for what? No other manufacturer has done this and people are free to either believe UAS or not. The notion that UAS would put so much time and effort into this and then fabricate stories about research is just ridiculous. When my car is finished I will be happy to post up 500rwkw sheet using these dumps. If anyone wants to supply me with xxx brand alternate dumps and pay for the removal/fitment/dyno time I will back to back test all day... Bottom line UAS have found that reduced turbulence good, but bigger opening at turbo is gooder. Re: SpecialtyZ Testing First up I will say that I am not bagging specialtyz products and good to see continual innovation. Now regarding the link to TT.net. From these comments I can see that they have tested various split systems and found that the larger, better flowing split system has performed best. No surprises there but good to see such a detailed report. Conclusion, new SZ dumps are better than old SZ dumps. Also On the UAS dumps this ihas not been neglected and is dealt with via internal divider rather than separate pipe. As above, the conculsion I came to is new SZ better than old SZ, but how does this lead to split better than bellmouth??????. Re: Pricing As originally posted I am not disclosing pricing in this thread. Prices will be available in FSBB when ready, or via PM if anyone is SERIOUSLY interested (no tyre kickers please...). I will say that pricing is comparable to other 3" dump and front pipes. And to wind up.... OK I think I have posted everything. Some members need to take a deep breath, count to ten, and remember that nobody is asking you to buy these this thread is tech info only. Bottom line the experts (like or loathe them) are telling us that this design is superior and that this is based on sound theories and confirmed with actual dyno testing. Just because it goes against popular theory doesn't mean it's wrong, there are plenty of products out there (someone mentioned my favourite "upgraded" dumps earlier...) that don't stack up on the dyno or are of questionable design (for example cams, injectors, springs and other components that i have actually tested along the way rather than just buying on reccomendation of US forums...) and yet people continue to buy in record numbers. XXX number of forum members can be wrong!! Anyway as I said in an earlier post, take it or leave it.
An excellent reply The main reason I'd liked to have seen a comparison back to back would be for the low down spool etc. I have no doubt the bigger opening the better for top end but wanted to see how they fair against each other being one is completely isolated waste-gate and turbine wheel and one has a small divider but is not isolated Also I don't think people were out to knock the product, I wasn't trying to at any rate. But getting more top end power without any trade-off makes me question it
it looks to me that they have been put up against the tune agent down pipes ,, not anything worth while , like the ces or the coz ones ,,not bagging the tune agents ( much) but still .. or has this been coverd ...... so my question is have they been put up against the best in the likes of ces and coz http://www.conceptzperformance.com/Cart/description.php?II=1946 http://images.google.com/imgres?img...+dumps&um=1&hl=en&rlz=1T4SUNA_en___AU212&sa=N
Very thorough Rob260 very thorough coverage here. For the record I have 3 inch non turbulence dump- and short engine pipes in one on my car as there was nothing on the market and time consuming to make and costly. I guess part of the reason no one makes the bell mouth type. We can supply both but the best for flow is the bell mouth as Rob has explained especially if has divider so best of both worlds. I will be changing mine soon. Also keep in mind ours will be the only ones on the market that I know of that have dump and engine pipe in one so lighter and less joins for potential leak and smoother for flow as well as we took the time to make it sit up in the tunnel neatly following the contour around the starter motor so no clearance issue. Costly as time consuming especially in staino and for those in the know see the pics and see how many little pieces around the turbo flange then how many mandrel bends have to be Tig welded, NOT mig welded and we will make far less margin on the these than the non turbulence type we also supply. So for anyone thinking we are just pushing product well we push what is best even if make less. Keep in mind though for now they are only available for 5 bolt T28 SR20 flange and in 3 inch for big powered zeds. The gas coming out of the back of the turbo is the hottest and requires the biggest area to flow into and the overall area of a bell mouth is only restricted by being able to properly bolt them to the car and not leak so you can basically the full internal area of the flange. With the internal divider being 2mm I think they are using thin piece of pipe Tig welded internally as a divider. Whilst a non turbulence, or separate pipe or also called divorce pipe overall uses much less area and then there is also the fact that the gasses are hitting walls of smaller pipes. As mentioned tests back to back on a Stagea we did with larger HKS turbo, showed bell mouth made about 6 or 7 rwkw more power compared to a very nicely made divorce pipe type that we had. Probably as the exhaust gasses flowing out of the larger exhaust housing and exhaust wheel are hitting the pipe on the receiving end in the dump pipe. Stock turbo may be different , as in does not have this disadvantage. The Tune Agent shiny ones are too small in my opinion, as very small area for gases to flow out of and dyno showed virtually no gain over stock dump pipes on dyno with stock turbo's. The pipe size internally is same, or if anything only a fraction larger than stock.
have they been put up against the best in the likes of ces and coz http://www.conceptzperformance.com/Cart/description.php?II=1946 http://images.google.com/imgres?img...+dumps&um=1&hl=en&rlz=1T4SUNA_en___AU212&sa=N[/QUOTE]
good reply good reply, but i think you need to understand that nobody was really having a go at the product or carrying on. On this forum B.S gets shot down and so do unverified claims. These have been tested on RB series engines and thats all well and good. but Zeds and skylines are very different cars. especially when you start talking about single turbo RB25's look its quite clear that you have a well designed and well researched product, i dont think anyone is disputing that. If and when a forum member gets a set of these i will be very interested to see the power gains as i expect it will be quite noticeable. I will also look forward to seeing your car make 500rwkw
I know Maybe we should send them to USA to get credability as they know everything, and then they will sell including people in Australia.
John, I think Rollin summed it up pretty well. No one is having a go at the bell mouth dumps, we would just like to see these tested on a zed before claims are made that they are better than divorced style dump pipes. That is all.
That's what I said via PM, and was told that I have no idea So I proceeded to join the GB on SZ split dumps, in stainless, at $690 AuD delivered
