I've tested many different spark plugs and the ones that allow slightly larger gaps on OEM ignition have been the Brisk spark plugs. No issues running these over the OEM platinum plugs.
How far have you driven on a set so far? Reason i ask is there are some reports bout brisk plugs craping out premature. Not sure if this is still the case though. Wonder how the strapless one might work for us..
There are some topics that guarantee pointless debate that universally progresses to outright conflict and these topics should be universally banned on enthusiasts forums. They include but are not limited to: Best tyres for my car Best battery Best spark plugs Best? Crimp or solder wire joints And the grand-daddy head-honcho of them all and well out in front........ wait........WAAAAAAAIT! *drum roll please* *****************************Tah-daaaaaaah! THE BEST OIL!!!!!!!! OMFG! No one single topic in an automotive forum will so easily, and magically bring out the expert oil development engineer in so many of us. Like magic, everyone has a "must use" 100 dollar a litre funky brand oil (Think Royal Purple et-al) that is the LAST WORD in lubrication! Compared to what exactly? (As if the VG30 gods so badly designed it that it wont go a round or two before clapping out due to insufficient/inefficient lubrication to begin with) They will defend that claim to the point of implied violence and trot out all sorts of anecdotal evidence to support their "must use" claims....Please.!!! Lip service at best!!! Show me the actual evidence ladies. And they cant! The subjective testing of 2 several identical engines, driven over thousands of hours, hundreds of thousands of kilometers, Ranging from easy light load to tortuous, extended idling in 40+ degrees C heat. Like, I mean several DAYS idling away at that temp. Thousands of cold starts etc. Then the periodic tear-downs and subsequent rebuilds of those engines tirelessly measuring and inspecting, comparing the oil analysis samples collated against the other data.. I dont need to go on. Ultimately, you might as well choose your oil based on the pretty pictures on the bottle for all you know ACTUALLY about it save for whatever "someone said", "you heard", "a mate once told you", "My engine builder told me to only use XYZ brand"...etc Engine builders/tuners are just as full of shite as the rest of us everyday plebs with regards to these type of urban myths. They only know what THEY know or what their peers tell them. No different to any automotive forum. Most performance engines never live long enough to substantiate ANY claims either for or against engine lubrication. I digress! Back to this actual sparkplug topic. Sparkplugs are often a powerful mechanical placebo that seem to magically transform engines from cantankerous, missfiring, detonating, fuel guzzling pigs into docile, fuel efficient kittens. This forum alone is full of such dazzling, almost god-like claims from end to end. So much so that one could be forgiven for actually beginning to believe it if not vigilant enough!!! Look, sparkplugs, in essence, are just an air gap. Something for the spark to jump across in a defined space. Nothing more, nothing less. They work...or they dont. They do come in different "heat ranges" to simply account for varying engine conditions from a chugging Briggs & Stratton on your mower to a screaming 400Hp/Litre 2 stroke. Automotive science has yet been able to prvide the true, universal spark plug for all situations. Despite some laughably stellar claims, (usually manufacturers AND re-sellers), and the same guys who had you believe that Royal Purple oil cured everything from missfires, to worn bearings and rings...... There is just NO magical released power to be had from one heat range to the next, one brand plug to the next brand plug. And lastly, plugs just dont need to be changed as a matter of course after "X" miles!!!!! This is also true from one style of plug to the next. Any standard type plug, just needs to be pulled out every service interval and have the gap adjusted to account for wear. However, this cane be pretty painful on a lot of "modern" engines like the VG with a fair level of work just to get to the blasted things! As the electrodes wear and the spark gap becomes larger, altho the spark will happily jump the distance, the spark DUARATION become shorter. With older or badly maintained ignition systems where spark energy is limited to begin with, the spark duration and intensity can become so short that it actually wont light the fire. Sometimes not even initiate the spark at all.dreaded missfiring. So naturally, they had to be rooted yer? Its a fair thing to think. In which case it was the norm to just pull them out and toss them. Plugs are cheap. Whether anything was wrong with them or not!!! If they are sparking they are working. Its simple!!! Nobody adjusts the gap with a plug gapping too. Ill bet the majority on here dont even KNOW what a plug gapping too looks like without Googling it. For thos that do pull and gap them, do you bother to gap then and ensure the negative electrode is actually parallel to the center electrode? Well actually, most of you dont. If you did, then youd need a plug gapping tool to do it!! Admit it, all you do is bash the splug tip onto something hard and squizz at it with a strange, vaguely mad-scientist type of look (think Dr Emmet Brown in Back To The Future) squint and "yep, that'll do"! The multi (2, 3 and sometimes 4) plugs are largely a hangover from piston powered aviation engines and about all they do is provide several different paths for the spark to jump in event that one particular electrode burns away falls off . Its a reliability thing. In effect, self adjusting as one electrode burns away the spark just moves to another and so-on sharing the wear. NOT, say 4 paths at the same time which would probably be very desireable, nope just one at a time. Which ever one is the shortest path and will occasionally move around. great for large displacement, low RPM engines running at extreme altitudes and tuned for maximum exhaust gas temp and minimum LEADED fuel usage (the dreaded lead fouling) that get the plugs pulled once in a blue moon. The center electrode, side earth electrode type, where both hot and ground electrodes are within the threaded body of the plug often associated with "racing" engines. Quite successful in 2 stroke racing engines where very high combustion chamber turbulence, pressure fluctuations is encountered due to cylinder scavenging/ports/expansion chamber boosting = spark blowout. VERY useful addition to forced induction engines where spark blowout might be a problem with extended nose pkugs due to the shrouded nature of their construction. The 2-stroke racing guys knew what they were doing. Availability is questionable tho. A variation on these are the "surface discharge" plug where the insulation around the nose of the center electrode fills the body almost to the top and the spark jumps directly from the center electrode to the body of the plug. Mostly found in 2 stroke outboards that are asked to work at extreme torque/cylinder pressures temps for extended periods of time and then perhaps idle around interminably running under-temp all the while trying to burn oil with the fuel. Note the big cloud of burnt oil smoke from an outboard that has been idling a while, even at 100:1 synthetic oil. The spark is free to jump from anywhere around the radius of the plug and these plugs typically have a very large air gap, (circa 2mm) best suited to very high energy, ultra short duration CDI type ignition systems which are best used with 2 strokes where plug fouling from wet oil is a problem and can eventually cause carbon/coking fouling from the electrodes running too cool. The later development of the Platinum/Iridium extended nose style of things with the needle type electrode are excellent in that having such a fine electrode, typically 0.7mm, the spark is contained to a very small originating area. There is no dispute with regards to some horsepower gains to be had from "indexing" extended nose plugs to contain the spark at the most ideal position. Like bewdy mayyyyyt if your in restricted class racing where "every ounce counts"... The needle point type center electrode actually LOWERS the voltage necessary to initiate the spark (research it if you dont believe me.. (think Tesla generators for info) and the very thin electrode transfers heat far faster than say copper, and so the plug can be asked to run happily in a shopping trolley without carbon/oil fouling or running hard at a track day without the spectre of the plugs overheating. This takes care of the nefarious task of changing plugs to a colder heat rating (transfer heat faster) every time you want to limiter bash your beast at the track. The alloy the electrodes are made of, whatever its called, is also virtually impossible to erode unlike copper or other older plug styles and so the plugs are good for at least 100,000 K's before even looking at them!!! So really, the choice is yours but in performance terms, either way, makes NO real world difference. Buy cheap coppers and they become part of a regular maintenance routine. More often than oil changes in a boosted car weith some kind of high energy ingition system and a complete labour intensive PITA in many instances. The very bottom line is, if the plug isnt shorted internally (which occasionally happens to EVERY plug type and BRAND, no matter what) and the gap is correct, they will perform just as well as a higher priced Platinum or Iridium. However, there are several significant plusses in favour of the Iridium/Platinum line! Read thru these here very forums and there are many guys producing stupid Hp and getting good results from plain old coppers. That is because plugs dont produce horsepower. They are just an air gap. If those guys are happy to keep pulling plugs out every so many thousand K's, then good luck to them. For mine, I have far better things to waste my time on than pulling out plugs from a VG30, my bikes...anything. FWIW, I use NGK Iridiums in every 4 stroke engine I have and I NEVER remove them. To date, Ive had one Iridium internally short on my race car using stock temp plugs. I choose to pay the premium price for the convenience of NEVER removing them and not thinking about them for more or less the life of the engine, unless they fail of course. And many of these guys with stupid high performance engines who have clearly spent tens of thousands of dollars on them whinge about the initial cost of Platinum plugs...... I mean WTF?? Thats like having a 600 Hp car and whingeing that it doesnt get as good fuel economy as it did when it was stock 300hp...like WTF is going on there with dudes and their false economy??? With regards to the ignition data above, those VW plugs are reasonably impressive. Are they expensive in comparison to say the AC Delco D585 truck coil? The actual number of Joules doesnt impress me a great deal, but what does impress me is the spark DURATION. On that basis alone, they are ahead of the industry standard for affordable performance coils the humble "Yukon" (d585) coil. Yours in sparking! E
Don't hold back Evan, tell us what you really think !!!! :rofl: Come to think of it .... if all those subjects you named were resurrected, this place may not be such a graveyard
https://www.facebook.com/scott.clark.92351 Scroll down some posts until you get a green big one about Brisk...
It should shame me to admit this but it worked - I'm running copper plugs. NGK BCPR6ES gapped to 0.95 mm. Fitted them 22,172 km's / 6 years ago. They are still in there and still working a treat. Someone was bound to ask for engine specifics - August 1989 built J-spec TT auto 2+2. Engine block & heads rebuilt by dickheads about 34,000 km's / 8 years ago. Has manual cams and OEM auto turbos with Hypergear 7 psi actuators. Road tuned by Toshi for 16 psi boost. It's a weekender, not a daily. Inspected those copper plugs after 5,077 km's, they looked almost new. Made a note to replace them at the next oil change ~ service because copper plugs don't last long yarda yarda. I got lazy or complacent or distracted or busy raising kids or all of the left. But those plugs are still in there. I have no cold start issues, no misses under any conditions including redline and a wee bit more, and no plug fouling issues from doing repeated cold starts and short drives. Best advice I can give based on my experiences - while you're setting up your engine, put the platinum and irridium plugs aside. They're for afterwards. They don't necessarily work better, they just last longer, and they are absolute bastards for fouling up if your tune is not yet right or you are doing multiple cold starts on a factory tune while you sort shit out. Setup and test with coppers. Guys, feel free to heap shame on me for being too lazy to mess with something that works
Nope, I only ever run copper plugs on older gen turbo motors when you start playing with boost, timing and fuel. Copper plugs will deteriorate rapidly on any hint of lean running or detonation. Plug changes are easy on the VG, so it's cheap and easy insurance.
Surface discharge plugs. I mentioned those. They are just 2 stroke outboard sparkplugs. threy have been around for decades. Thats why they mentiond they are "cold" plugs. http://i.imgur.com/8UGFggc.jpg They work fine,,, for a race engine on one where your happy to ocassionally carbon foul plugs if on a road car. Because there is no shrouding of the spark and less chance of spark blowout, im not surprised. However, we are comparing apples with..... well... hybrid apples. I noted in that thread where one numpty was convinced that with multiple electrodes, there was multiple sparks all occuring simultaneously........ Errrm yep! E
I stated in the first post what this was about. Nothing about magic spark plugs etc. All new plugs tested, These 2 Brisk spark plugs allowed gaps as high as .98 mm at 23psi with no hints at spark blow out whereas the iridiums could only go as wide as .93 mm gap between 4500 rpms and 5500 rpms. coppers did better than iridium too. With the VAG COP coils it's even better than OEM. But with OEM coils we can run them from 1.9ms - 2.1ms to 2.5ms without saturation and extra spark. tassuperkart, remember not all plugs are created equal. There are differences between them and also designs. while the plugs themselves do not create horsepower a decent plug design can allow a full/complete burn unlike, say, a lazy high resistance plug. a common plug guys have tried were those +2 and +4 bosch plugs all which tend to degrade or fail rather quickly so why is that? "Look, sparkplugs, in essence, are just an air gap. Something for the spark to jump across in a defined space. Nothing more, nothing less. They work...or they dont. " In our case, the Brisk silvers (or any silver based spark plug) have been superior in spark capability with wide spark gap for the setup and never blowing out at the set gap over any iridium or, gasp, platinum. Even in 3000HP drag engines. Having had an engine dyno stuff like this was easy to test in a controlled environment. Not necessarily a placebo effect until you have time on the engine dyno and mess around with spark plug theories from these companies. Some work, some don't. But in the end they all spark their gap, the difference is just how MUCH they spark at a predetermined gap. As you keep opening them you really get to see the real winners. Anyways, what this post is about is just another option.
What sort of mileage are you getting out of the Brisk's in a general mid range turbo street / track car (say 400-500rwkw)? Any failures?
Not argiung WITH you on this. for your application, whatever works basically. My dissertation was more a generic rant not aimed at anyone in particular. it just fitted in well with a fair bit of the horse-poo on that other page mentioned. Its just so much dis and misinformation gets splashed about on forums that somehow, people seem to take as gospel after a time. Hence the list of taboo subjects and plugs are just one of the fring topics. Not quite as contentious as oils but nonetheless!! Now, with full access to an engine brake and youve done the testing you have done, then and you are finding that the Iridium/Platinum plugs with the needle point center electrode are suffering spark blowout with 0.06mm difference in plug gap. 0.06mm is 0.002" (known as a c**t-hair in Australia... probbably "Bush-hair" in the land of the Yewessay!!) Did the dyno actually report significant power differences with a 2 thou gap difference? Or was simply more blowout/missfires reported? how did the wider plug gap missfiring behave with degreeing the plugs in? Id be interested in that data. However, reducing plug gaps isnt necessarily a bad thing, up to a point. Each .001 of gap you have to reduce, you increase spark duration. This has been the push in electronic ignition systems ever since points became unfashionable. Spark duration is the ignition systems holy grail, not plain voltage hikes. Which is the trait of maggies as they rev up and CDI's. I would think the old fashioned MSD's, if they could be made to work on COP applications would be very useful in highly boosted engines that suffer too much combustion chamber turbulence. That issues could very well be addressed with a good, and I mean a real good CDI. CDI's are ignition of choice for the most brutal operating conditions for a sparkplug being a 2 stroke which has to tolerate wet oil fouling, carbon and coke fouling and wide heat ranges and still keep firing long after the 4 stroke engine has gone byebyes. Extended idling of an outboard engine anyone? Years ago, when i was a dumb-shite kid, I used to build CDI's with a dump voltage of in excess of 550v and up for my hotted up road car. The CDI's would whistle like mad over the sound of the engines. NOTHING would prevent the extremely high energy, BUT short duration spark from...well sparking. if the plug didnt spark, it would spark literally everywhere else! Except these CDI basically turned the plug electrodes into sacrificial welding electrodes! A copper cored plug in a road car would typically last 5000K's before the center electrode eroded back INSIDE the insulation nose. Plugs out and gapped, dissie cap and rotor thoroughly cleaned every week in a road bunky.... This was IF you could actually direct the spark, via the rotor, dissie and wires to the correct plug! The rotor and dissie cap eroded away at the air gap nearly as fast as the plugs and ANY dust or oil fumes would create a "track" for the spark to travel on. Itd be fair to say that crossfiring was a bitch! But damn that old engine responded well and could maintain plug chop colours with significantly larger main jets so something had to be working!!! UEGO wasnt invented then! Plug chops were the rage!!! E
Pretty dismal apparently(at least until the Electric Light & the Printing Press made an impact).:W::br:
There's an applicable quote here somewhere about growing old gracefully :rofl: With you and Lloyd as my aging role models I'm pretty sure the cause is lost! :rolleyes2:
How could you not know that? With age come Wisdom and Knowledge. Sorry for the thread Hijack...but really, it was well and truly covered in 2005 on the forum. Probably well before that, but the forum changed platforms, shit got lost, plus not sure how good our older archives are...so lets just call it 2005.
