This is sort of a tangient thread to the big single turbo thread. I thought I would post a new thread here rather than clog the other thread with off topic info. There has been quite an advancement into RMT technology in the past few years and for those that dont know STS or Squires Turbo Systems have been a pioneer in the technology and now make large sums of money with there bolt on systems for cars in the US market. Check em out http://www.ststurbo.com/ To the purist an RMT setup seems like a waste of time and money however great gains can be had by such a setup. I have been looking into this for some time as a means to get more power from a project build coming up and so far the setup looks very promising. So post up views etc here and discuss it a little. A Z32 would be a great car to try this technology on given the tight engine bays imagine a turbo change on a Z32 in around 1.5 hours that would be something, decreased under hood temps, lower intake charge temps even lower with I.C's the benefits are there aswell as obvious disadvantages however these may not be as bad as some believe.
I'm no mechanical engineer, but wouldn't the extra 2x3 meters of piping add heaps more lag and pressure drop?
The argument for is reducing underhood temps but that's about it. The arguments against is that a turbo needs to be as close to the engine as possible for maximum performance. For example car A) with X sized turbo rear mounted vs car B) with that same sized turbo closer, car B) will always make more power. The costs associated are so extreme aswell, apparently STS claim that rear mounting a turbo is their "patented" method of doing it and if you want it done then you have to pay them gobs and gobs of money. Personally I call BS on this and they cant really stop you, but still it's a whole can of worms for no benefit. It's been discussed in great depth on other Z forums...
your attitute reeks of arrogance, i am one to believe that rear mount turbo setups are crap also however i believe their setups have some merit. i mean they are only running low boost (ie 5-7 psi) on high compression engines so they dont NEED an intercooler. its arguable that the extra distance in pipe is just the same as the restriction from a front or side mount intercoolers.
Turbo's work by the pressure differential between engine side and exhaust side of the exhaust wheel, thats what makes it spin. When you move it 3meters down the road your looking at a significant temperature drop, hence pressure drop. These systems typically see smaller numbers in both flow and boost than they would using the same turbo on the manifold. So lag is increased 2 fold, both from the lower pressure difference and also by the fact that the piping to the intake is now at least 5 times the volume that it was before. The reason they achieve good numbers is 98% of the time they are turbo charging high compression motors and only running sub 10psi boost pressures. In this sense it could be a good mod, for a low comp motor like ours, there would be significant preformance losses. If your looking to make turbo changing easy then throw the battery in the boot, remove the clutch and brake boosters, make a custom pedal box and top mount your turbo's there.
That comment was unnecessary. This topic has been discussed in great depth many times, it's basic physics. A motor with a turbo located closer to the engine will make more power compared to one with it further away, it's as simple as that. Dont take my word for it, go do some research. :thumbup:
hmmmm, I am sure it works But there are better mods for the money. I figure that noting the low boost they are probably running it like a constant pressure system. Of note is the cost is comparable to the APS system for the 350Z, and it has significantly more power. Anyway their idea has been around since the 962 LeMans Porsche.
haha zed turbos are rear mounted allready!!! seriously do you want 0 ground clearance?? exactly where would it be mounted.???? the z system is allready gr8. bar the fact u need a engine pull for a turbo change. but then again we have a V6 motor!!!!!
It definately works, for the wow factor totally. Infact it'd almost be wicked in itself to just have it with a big ass T4 in the boot! Ive seen it done on a Mustang somewhere in the states. But this thing was a fully prepped drag car and really a show car. It was awesome but a massive amount of work for what you get vs the traditional setup. There's a reason no manufacturers did it like that. Very cool to be unique if that's what you want, wont be as efficient though. Do it anway just to be badass, full tubbed rear w/ tube chassis etc!
the benifits of tube chassis ey !!! not a problem.. on a normal z32. i really cant c it happening.... then again . any development for the Z is a good thing. so bring it on!
There has been some very valid points raised thus far. Benefits of RMT setup Ease of turbo change Ease of installation (non turbo car and subjective) Cheap (subjective again STS full universal kit $3k USD) Lower intake temps (subjective again depending on routing) Lower underbonnet temps (everything lasts a lot longer) Drawbacks of the RMT setup Boost response (lag) Space limitations (subjective) Noise (due to removing rear mufflers) Efficiency (doenst really come into it as the trubo would suit the application) Custom installation costs (if not handy with a mig and tig welder) So in summary swapping to an RMT setup from a TT is a silly idea that was not the intent of the original post. More so might be an option to N/A owners seeking a bit more HP. Cost to cost going a TT motor conversion to an RMT setup should see the RMT setup being cheaper dollar per KW. As far as efficiency goes the Z32 log type manifolds are far from ideal and quite in efficient in nature but thats the way they have to be given the limited space in the car. A nice set of tuned length type N/A headers feeding a large insulated collector running to the RMT setup would maximise exhaust flow and being insulated with high grade insulation would see minimal temperature drops and mild pressure drops for a correctly designed tapered exhaust system. The same can be said about the intake setup if it is well insulated and well constructed there is no reason the pressure drops and temp variances should be wildy different. Look at the stock and aftermarket FMIC and SMIC for the Z32 they feature the worst angle bends you could think of. By reducing the amount of severe bends and maximising flow leads to reduced pressure and temperature drops. All the top cars out of Japan feature custom segmented piping to reduce the amount of angles etc and maximise flow. 1 x 90 degree bend can equate to as much as 2.8 metres (pipe length) in terms of restriction and hence overall pressure drop (2.5 inch pipe) Really the only two major issues I see with the setup would be Boost response due to 3 odd metres of exhaust prior to the turbocharger and intake piping from the turbocharger to the intake. (this could be limited by proper design and insulating materials commercially available) Space concerns under the rear of the car. and a close 3 maybe cost to those who are not handy with a mig and tig PS not looking to use this setup with a VG
lol.. with a twist ...!!! .. one great pic, dave ... vroooom ... and even yours is not unique, cos you have two e-vades .... lol.... some of the young'uns (above) do not know what unique means ... "one of a kind" ....
That's beautiful mate! I love it! Someone should make a front mount single turbo kit for the Z32! That would be wicked. There was a post not so long ago with a Z32 with a single turbo mounted up in the front, clearance seemed good. A vented nose (just like yours! ) should handle the under hood temps fine. I bet if you measured that the temps with a single big front mount turbo it would be less than that of the twins crammed way down there. Pure speculation for now I guess, but it would be interesting to compare none the less. Do it!
That pic is not really representative of all FMIC. In fact they are the worst looking pipes Ive seen on a FMIC. Worse to the point that I had mine remade with bits of Mandrel donut to smooth out the terrible corners
Yeah Stu you are probably correct I used that pic just as a reference to the point being made not as an intentional dig at that particular kit or any other FMIC or SMIC kit on the market. PS I actually custom made mine aswell out of 2.5 inch thin gauge SS tube and mandrel bends BIG difference.
for a street car, would the exhaust have to go through the cats before getting to the turbo? if so = more lag and pressure drop what about on a rainy day? water flicked up from the rear wheels into the hot turbo can't have a positive impact on the turbo's life can it? with a water and oil cooled turbo you would need a ful loop, for the turbos back the the engine for each of these lines. Thats more piping that could potentially rupture and possibly totally destroy your engine also, boost solenoids? do we need a 4mm vac hose coming from the engine too?
plus the cost of a scavenger oil pump. the air pickup would have to be routed so it doesn't pick up standing water in a depp puddle and the turbine housings get so hot that it wouldn't take too much water to crack them
Yes vac lines would need to be run to the wastegates The kits come with the necessary engineered hardware to suit the application and turbo used including oil pumps for turbo oil flow. Most of the air intakes I have seen have had piping route up behind the bumper bars of the cars and up quite high on a zed I wouldnt think the height issue would be that much different to the stock setup, a pod on the factory tee hangs down quite low in the front. Its not an ideal setup by any means however I think merit is due on some level.
