Hey guys, I think I need my aircon regassed and I was wondering how to tell if I currently have R134a or R12. Just so I know how much I should be paying... It's an '89 JSpec TT imported in '04... would it have been changed when imported? Thanks
R12 is what they came with, even when bought over. Changeover was in 1992/1993 I think. It may have been retrofitted at some point though. An aircon place should be able to tell. I think there might also be a sticker somewhere advising of the retrofit if it's been done. But that is kinda academic. I don't think any place will fill you up with R12. Law is (I think...) that you have to get it retrofitted with the new gas.
I think the fine is up to $250,000 for using R12. R12 is a chlorofluorocarbon - very nasty to the ozone layer. R134a is a chlorohydrocarbon, and is OK. When converting from R12 to R134a some seals and things have to be changed as the oil in the R134a will attack them. The conversion is only a couple of hundred dollars and then you are 100% legal. Going down dark alleys and using a secret knock on a door and saying "Psst - Joe sent me for some illicit R12" seems daft by comparison. As for imports, an import requires a certification that the a/c gas has been removed before shipment, no matter what type it was. I have two imports and they both have been converted to R134a. No big deal really. There's my 2c.
I Beg to Differ I imported my Zed (personally did everything myself...paperwork and legal crap) when I returned to Australia after living in Tokyo for 2 years.... I didnt have to remove the R12 in order to be granted my Import approval... I asked Dotars about it but they said since I didnt need remove it as I wasnt importing on a commercial scale...... Second point is I have access to R12 (Old man's company has exemption, hence can get it freely) So I havent changed mine... R12 is a far better refrigerant that R134....
in QLD R12 can still be legallly used and sold. IT costs more as they are trying to fade it out but it certainly can be bought and used
Beg to differ all you like. It is illegal to import R12 into Australia - full stop. whether in a car or not. I have it in writing from DOTARS (I did an import Dec 2005). I am not saying that didn't happen in your case, but the DOTARS advice was black letter wrong. There aren't any "aw he's a good bloke", "he's only doing a little bit" exemptions. Do you have a letter on DOTARS letterheas telling you you don't need to bother? As for R12 - manufacture was banned internationally in 1994, but that doesn't mean the Dodgy Bros won't be able to rustle up a tin or two. They store it behind the blue asbestos and under the tins of 24D and 245T.
It is also a clear breach of The Environmental Protection Agency legislation to sell, supply or release R12 into the atmosphere. Owners of vehicles that have not been converted to an alternate gas, can be fined if their vehicle suffers a malfunction which causes R12 to discharge into the atmosphere. Air Con workshops have to dispose of used R12 by sending it through EPA hands for safe destruction. You may not like it, but that's the Law.
Open your eyes man.... R12 is still very much in Australia... and is still used in Industry.... Go to your local port.... look at all the thousands of refrigerated containers coming in from abroad.... most have R12 as their refrigerant... Why? because R134 is a stunt to appease the greenies and happies and make the government look all environmentally savvy.... you think AU is going to impose conditions on the importing/exported of perishable items because the shipping companies (usually foreign) dont use R12? they got a exemption because imposing R134 on them would F*ck the economy, cost jobs and have huge political fall out.... sure they are making use consumers convert... however industry is treated with kid gloves....
Don't want to start an interstate war here... ..but have you ever seen a Queensland Zed that actually has been complied properly? As in seatbelts moved to the B pillar, foglights removed and replaced with combo indicator/parker units? That's what the ADRs require. When I queried that once, one motor dealer up there told me that the ADRs are actually different in Queensland. Having a market in R12 therefore surprises me not a bit.
See? That's where the difference of opinion comes in, we're talking about Australia. You're talking about Queensland.:zlove:
You've got this all wrong I have an old fridge in my garage that runs on R12. I am allowed to keep it. But it is illegal to recharge it. Before it can be disposed of, the R12 must be scavenged back to a cylinder and never vented to the atmosphere. There are huge penalties. If the hole in the ozone layer is a greenies stunt, it is sure a pretty good one.
honestly i dont know much about compliancing, but i do know that i got 2 vehicles recently gassed up with R12. complete with invoice
Simply.... Commerce come before environment... sometimes this is obvious sometimes its not... where the forced use of R12 is damaging to commercial interests, exemptions are given.... as a result of these exemptions I have no more than 15 metres from where I am now a Cylinder of R12 waiting to go should I need to top up my Zed's Aircon gas... Lloyd you can jump on the environmental bandwagon now..... but where were you 30 years ago? were you singing the same tune? (Lloyd with a full head of hair, post some pics mate, I reckon the haircut will be a pisser) however to say that QLD reckless... I would Imagine Industry (who lets face it are huge polluters) have R12 if they need it and make commercial sense regardless of state....
Firstly, vbevan was the author of the first post in this thread to raise the environmental restrictions on the use of R12, so why are you directing this at me(perhaps you think it is a popular choice)? What would I be doing discussing R12, 30yrs ago(it's manufacture and import restrictions into Australia didn't come into effect until 1994)? Why do you have an unhealthy interest in my hair style, circa 1977? How long have you had this fixation? How about a photo of YOU 30yrs ago, now that would be interesting, Tadpole.:biggrin::zlove:
R12 is technically a far better refrigerant than R134a. And another thing, the 'hole' in the ozone layer has actually reduced in size compared with 10 years ago We must be filling it up with all these greenhouse gases...
Nobody is saying it's not a better refrigerant, it's just not a better option for a whole lot of other reasons. As for the hole in the ozone layer, can you say with certainty, that 14 years of R12 restricted use has definitely not contributed to an improvement in that phenomena?:zlove:
