Did you know that CAD programs can even incorporate flow dynamics so you can pretty much replicate bench-flowing +-5% Get real smithy, you make a prototype loosely based on the OEM Nissan design but larger ID and incorporate any increased flow ideas you see, bend angles etc, also keep in mind the stock manifolds weakness in the design, bah, middle runner is the worst front not too bad actually. *edit I'm tired* When you have this prototype you drum up business at a huge profit, of course you test fit to an engine and refine between prototype and production, maybe even make two prototypes to refine. Placement shouldn't be an issue, measure twice cut once. You're obnoxious smithy! please leave my posts alone.
Ok so whats all this fuss about. are the products made of the same stuff? do they do the same job? are they the same quality? if yes, then buy the cheaper one, if not, then don't.. nothing wrong with copying an item and re-selling it as your own, its not AMS's fault that the design wasn't patented. :zlove:
Will do me best Sport!, only if yer talk crap regarding the manufacture of products that the likes of Mike smith, greg dupree or Kuah have produced or try and pass goods off as a better known brand, when they ain't, sozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, i'll struggle! Smithy
Of course you will struggle, you can't help yourself. Making a cast manifold aint rocket science. You're just rude... you can't make a point in a friendly manner, you bring things up from the past, I think you're totally out of order and I wish you would simply crawl back into your hole. "Oh my god!! I know this is going to appear like am attacking you again, but jesus H christ i've never read such crap from someone who professes to know a great deal about parts etc."
the way i see it is that the mike smith manifold are basically copies of the stock manifolds only ported and the AMS manifolds can be looked at the same way, 6 of one half a dozen of the other if you ask me, in any case, they are cast manifolds, how different can they look anyway?, everywhere with aftermarket Z parts you see copies of copies of copies, to me $1000US for a set of cast manifolds is akin to daylight robbery, once the cast is made the cost per manifold to produce would only be a few dollars, then a bit of machining and buffing, i've been keen on a set of MS manifolds for a while, the only reason i haven't bought them it that i consider the price to be ridiculous, good on AMS. for making something more reasonably priced, besides the MS manifolds are not under any patent as there is nothing original about them .
AMS Facts - First Reply on 3ZC site .... Hi guys, I was just informed of this thread and thought it was prudent to show my replies on the 3ZC site: AMS Facts.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As most of our clients are aware of we have been servicing, tuning and providing parts for the 1990+ Z's in Canada exclusively since 1992! Alot longer than most. http://amszstore.com/main/pages.php?page=aboutus Our Manufacturing practices: http://amszstore.com/main/pages.php?page=manuf Our Media Coverage: http://amszstore.com/gallery/index.php?cat=3 Active supporters of International Z events - over 20 Grand last year alone! http://amszstore.com/gallery/index.php?cat=2 Our web-site is slated to go live this weekend so it is surprising that some have accessed it prior??? As for the products I will first and foremost state that our AMS manifolds have gone through 2 different moulds at a cost exceeding 10 G's USD in the last 12 months. They are different from the MS Manifolds in several regards! 1) Bigger runners 2) Better flowing runners - Independently tested on the Superflow 1020 3) Better Pricing - GB price to be annouced soon! 4) They will be in stock unlike others 5) They come with a 1 yr warranty 6) Life-Time Warranty for Cryo-Treated units 7) Full gaskets and fasteners included (including manifold to head gaskets) 8) Manufactured to the strickest International tolerances as with all our products! More info on the manifolds will be released shortly as we did not expect our site to be accessed by some on other forums! As for the concerns for 'copying' I find this most interesting coming from vendors and others who support alot of other products that have originated from other Japanese Tuners/Parts Providers. To name a few: 1) Fuel Rails - Border Racing being the originators and they are improved upon and yet no complaints! 2) Brake Brace - Cusco (Greddy) design for RHD that was simply reversed for LHD - no complaints! 3) Cusco and Tein suspension piece versions available by many - no complaints! 4) Stillen Shifter - renditions available by many (mostly bad copies) - no complaints! 5) Sub-Frame Collars and Bushings from Overseas originators - no complaints! 6) Coil-Over kits made in Korea and re-badged in the USA by Many - no complaints! 7) Various Pulley Kits of the original - no complaints! I can go on and on........ The point of the matter is that there seems to be a concerted effort by some smaller home based vendors to support one another at the perceived expense of legitimate Companies! Herd mentality comes to mind without researching facts! This is what happens in the 'real' manufacturing sector and competitive market place! We experienced this first hand when one of our original products in North America was copied- STB. These are now selling years later on E-bay for $20! For the record we have never directly bashed a vendor or product! Regardless of how similar or exactly the same it may be! Customer Service, Pricing, Longevity in the Market-Place are prevailing traits and Warranties are prevailing traits of a legitimate company. I recommend all vendors visit SEMA and other trade events to not only gain valuable knowledge on emerging markets but to better understand the overall marketplace! In closing, our consumers demand a product due to variables such as lack of supply/high-cost/fitment etc. As a company are obliged to listen to our clients and provide where there is a demand. It is what any company in a competitive global market-place will do. We look forward to continuing our support of the International Z Community regardless of what some may say about us. Best Regards, Vuk@AMS www.amszstore.com
AMS Reply #2 - 3ZC site....Thanks for looking! Another reply showing differences! We will have news on a GB for our Aussie cousins shortly as well! We are currently setting up an account with a vendor on this site to run our specials! AMS Manifold Specs - partial.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thought I'd share some specs for those claiming 'copy'. Please note the meaning of the word copy - 'duplicate' - no difference! Our units were made with the competition in mind no doubt! We intentionally wanted to bring to market what clients have been asking of us for while. Cast Manifolds that would be available (public and dealers), affordable, better flowing, more features (all gaskets included and fasteners), lifetime Warranty (Cryo Treatment option). I guess pictures really say a thousand words! AMS Manifolds next to OEM - I guess we can be accused of copying the stock design as well just making it bigger? Not many ways of making a manifold look different with a quick glance, especially where measurements are concerned and trying to retain stock mounting features/characteristics: AMS Shots: AMS next to MS - flow reference numbers minus gaskets as independently tested on a Superflow 1020 (State-of-the-art machine). Chart depicting AMS, MS and stock will be posted with GB announcement. Also contact info for the test facilitator will be available! Notice the differences in shape and size of heat shield mounting provisions! Outside runner AMS: Same runner MS: Outside runner AMS: Same runner MS: AMS Outside Runner: MS Outside Runner: Outside Heat Shield Mounting AMS: Outside Heat Shield Mounting MS: Inside runner AMS - different casting technique applied: Inside runner MS: I could go on to show similarities and differences between AMS, MS and stock units but I think the point is well taken. As for some of the other items like the 3" D.P.'s I guess people forget to read the manufacturer on our site. There are several exhaust contractors/manufacturers in Canada with distributor ties making systems for the 'big' boys in North America. Our source happens to drive a 300ZX and offered to make these affordable designs if we were willing to 'distribute' and 'guarantee' quantities which we did. Remember the SZ pipes are distributed by them and not manufactured by them - I believe Fast Intentions are the producers? The Brake Brace was already produced by one of our contacts and we decided to stock these but obviously wanted our colours. I can only imagine we ordered the same silver units that are available by this manufacturer. As for E-Bay we have learned alot from being burned in the past with a couple products! Global Exclusivity contracts are signed before any product is started. You can rest assure that any copies of our products are exactly that. Not from our manufacturers and will lack several features we always include in our products. As for suspension there have been numerous Midori and Cusco styles available. It is a matter of what makes your units stand out. Our units are made by manufacturers which adhere to global certification standards. Our bearings are Koyo sealed and now feature traits offered by the competition and then some! We now have the Thickest Collars of any control arm on the market! (T6061 Aluminum)! Recently a Carbing STB type was offered and I have yet to see much criticism? I could go on about all the vendors and products but at the end of the day we are providing what our clients ask of us as are other vendors. If we sit back I assure you it was a matter of time until someone else decided to 'Copy' the MS manifolds without concern for better numbers. For the avid readers they will be able to see through the obvious sabotage tactics by a well organzied group of individuals who were never AMS or Z1 clients to begin with and have always supported there local home-based vendors which I have no qualms with - having dealt with many. The only problems I have is when attacks are so rampant without looking at all the variables. These are fundamentals of a Capitalist Market in the manufacturing sector. As mentioned a simple trip to SEMA would open everyones eyes on how competitive the after-market is! Regards, Vuk@AMS www.amszstore.com
how can any one say these are a copy , they are clearly different , isnt it realy just a stock manifold with bigger holes
Vuk, I posted in the TTnet thread and told em to back off and be realistic. These guys have no idea inside their blind rage about what constitutes a copy. You and I both know you cant copy cast iron like its a bit of fibreglass. It shrinks over 5% as it cools down meaning you can just "COPY" the MS ones. I know you had all new patterns made for these and hence they are different but similar. You cant patent somthing you didnt design MS. Nissan should be the ones concerned about the MS copies. I still think your manifolds are over priced, But I guess you are selling at what you think the market will bear. At least we can now get them. Sleep easy mate, Not everyone lacks logic or knowledge on making cast iron parts like most at TTnet.
MS Manifolds I had no problems getting MS manifolds, maybe when they were first released there were delays but then thats the same with most products. Either way, don't bash a product or its delivery times till you have ordered a set yourself. I'm all for competition but the rampant hissy fits that seem to keep comming back shit me to tears. And remember guys, we always hear people bashing our zed who have no actualy knowledge on the subject. You know the kind who heard it from their friends sister who heard it from her brother who heard it from his dads friends brothers uncle. Keep this in mind when posting things you don't have direct experience with.
well you've convinced me Vuk, i'll be waiting for the GB on aus300zx.com, great timing as my motor is coming out in the next couple of weeks, wicked
I'll take back what I said earlier after reading the reply. Not sure if I need any products at the moment, but if something in the GB catches my eye I might be in.
Working out the time-lines and pricing as we type We want to have firm production numbers and delivery times from the manufacturer before we post. We have a very large order placed to feed the demand - as a result, the GB Price will be 'very' attractive. Z Nationals (end-March) was the scheduled intro/launch date but some on the other forum have decided to post links to our new web-site before we went 'live'. They inadvertently created a beneficial buzz for the product(s) and our site! We will announce the GB price simultaneously with all our vendors no worries. Regards, Vuk@AMS www.amsztore.com
