Have you guys all seen the details for the federal budget? IMO a bit like a magicians trick. They wave a tiny tax cut in front of you with one hand while the other is up to all kind of tricks.My biggest concern out of the whole thing is the change to university fees. Im certainly happy that Ive finished uni, and my g/f is almost through. They have deregulated it, so now we are the same as the US, where only the rich or those with scholarships can afford to go.To give you an idea, take nursing for example. Expect the average wage for a nurse to be about 30-35k. It was estimated with the new fees and interest rate on the government loan that by the time repayments were made it would of cost well in excess of $100,000 for the degree. 100k for a $30-40k a year job! The chap on the news is talking about generational debt, where it will take people a generation just to pay off their student loan before they can even consider buying a house etc. From what I understand nursing and perhaps teaching are going to be excluded perhaps, but it still leaves the gross majority of degrees in the same boat.Tell me, those of you with degrees or thinking of getting them, how many of you would do it if it costs you more than 100k? If your only earning $35k a year, no bank is going to loan you money for a home loan until youve paid that off, which will be what 10-15 years?Im dreading to see what a medical degree will cost after this. Keep in mind guys, junior doctors are actually paid LESS per hour than nursing staff while in the public sector. This is mainly because the AMA is such a weak union, and the government have made working in the public system compulsary for all doctors for the first 3 years minimum. Im sure the UNI bill will be staggering so I can see that changing, but the biggest shift will be about 10 years after these changes when the new doctors finally manage to get out of the public hospital system and become your new GPs etc with massive debts. I can see the cost of a visit to a GP doubling or even more just to repay debt. Bit of a worry with the medicare system already on its last legs. Im really dissapointed by this move because I believe in affordable education. If you dont believe you/ your kids should have this sort of debt when they finish uni, or simply be excluded from uni because they dont have enough money then you should really write your local member.
Gawd - how much would my degree cost then it was a double degree in Electrical Engineering and Information Technology - supposedly the hardest course in Australia with a successful graduation rate of 40% while the other 60% drop back to one degree or totally out.I can't understand why the Liberal Govt wants to destroy the university structure - maybe they've read too many fiction novels and get their ideas from them.
It would appear that even with the changes the taxpayer still funds 75% on the expenses of the average uni student. If you are a taxpayer who can't afford to have gone to uni at least feel benevolent that you are paying most of the cost for those who are.=) =) (Full time worker and part time (Night Lectures) TAFE student for 7 years when younger.
but> <sarcasm> you're getting 6 dollars a week extra in tax cuts, thats gotta be worth something right<end sarcasm>Just goes to show that little johnnie is more concerned about pleasing big daddy bush then getting putting his own country first.
IMHO ... should cost but should also be free IMHO ... you should pay to go to university, but on graduating from university in the course you qualified for them you (or your parents/sponser) should get a tax break to refund that cost back.Okay, my logic ....* how many students I knew that started an engineering degree then after a year changed to science, but that was not quite them, so they changed to another course ... so first one or two years were wasted (and that is one seat that could of been filled by a student that really wanted to do that course but just did not quite get the score).* why do you go to university in the first place; to get an education, that results in you getting a better job, and a better job more-often-then-not pays more and is taxed more.Hence my theory is a student should pay for the educational time they waste, but if they complete their course and graduate then society should reward them for this achievement. So if you pay for your course then the tax break should go to you; but if your parents (or some other sponser) then they should get the tax break.
Still doing my PhD..... but without the old HECs system, I would not have been able to go to uni. I wouldnt have gotten a scholarship because I was never the top of the class and my parents are not well off enough to pay for my course. Bugger..JEDI-77
Just my opinion but...(longish) Without trying to get too detailed about everything because it is all political. Let's look at a few points.1. The world today is a lot different to the world 10 years ago. A lot more uncertainty and a lot more money and partnerships involved.2. John Howard might not be the best PM ever in Aus but he is damn near close to it. He might only be trying to be best mates with Bush but let's face it, who wouldn't be when he is the most powerful man.3. The UN has no power in the world anymoreor ever did for that matter. Kofi Annan is a gutless person. This has only just been shown when we walked into Iraq. What did the UN do...nothing4. Aus has the second best economic growth in the world behind the US. This is due in part to the fact that the Liberal Gov't has made some smart decisions over the past few years. It might not please everyone in Aus but how you going to do that.5. Defence and National security are the key issues at this time. I'm not being biased as I'm in Defence but the fact of the matter is that it is. If we want to be able tolive our lives without fear of some bonehead strapping bombs to a car or themselves and blowing us up then we have to spend the money. People complain that other things are being missed out on but they also want to reduce taxes. Hello.....you cannot have your cake and eat it to. Either you cut back on other things or increase taxes. Simple logic really.6. Lastly, on the side of Unversity. When I moved here from Canada, I thought the world of the Unis here. You have HECS. You little beauty...back in Canada I would have had to have taken a loan for all of my schooling. Majoring in Computer Programming prob about $20K a year for 4 years. I would cut my losses short and say that the system here is still better than a lot of them out there.Just IMHO though. Take it or leave it...
DAMN! Still have two (and a half) years of uni left! I'm doing Bachelor of Commerce (major in accounting) which will get me around $35,000 in the first couple of years and then that will start going up. I'm still a little worried though . When does this new budget start? immediately or in 2005? Someone told me it starts in 2005.....do they know what they're on about? Like JEDI said, if there wasn't for HECS I wouldn't have been able to get a scoolarship because I'm not the best and my parents would be unable to pay for it. Maybe sell the Z?
An unsolicited Political statement> brought to you by the Department of Defence, an organisation that traditionaly favours the present Government policies, because historicaly, the Liberal Governments have spent-up big on Defence Budgets, whilst the Labor Governments have not. A simple case of survival, NOT political persuasion.Cheers John Lloyd (More Wisdom from a Slack Bastard)
ohh uhh, how do i get to uni? Im kinda confused here d00ds,im yet to leave highschool right, and my parents would not be able to pay for it, im not the best in my classes so i doubt i would be able to get a scholarship - so how do i get into university??? Isnt this just gonna widen the poor and rich gap? like shitloads?im worried now
Depending on the degree you do...>> You may end up with a debt to the government in excess of $100,000. At this point a lot of it is speculation, because the government is yet to get it through so there may be some give and take on the issue to decrease the costs.However I do have it from a good source that for example the planned fees for nursing were for $13k a semester. 6 semesters (pray to god you dont repeat any) and thats $78,000 that the government will kindly loan you. Now consider that the loan starts accumulating interest from the day you start studying and increases every 6 months, the majority of people will have no way to repay this and study at the same time. So the actual debt at the end of the degree will be higher than this. Now remember nursing is roughly $30k a year from memory when you start. Imagine trying to finance around $85,000 worth of debt and youve only JUST started earning. Its estimated that by the time this debt is repaid, it would of roughly cost around $110-120,000. All this for a degree that earns you an average wage. It will take people 10-15 years depending on repayments to get this loan payed off. So the average joe will be 35 before they could even probably be eligeable for a CAR loan, let alone buy a house somewhere, because the money they are forking out goes into a blackhole, they dont even get any equity out of it.This is just an example, which from what I hear they plan to exclude nurses from, but its what the rest of you will face. Also this is probably one of the cheaper courses so most of you can expect to pay a lot more than this.So in answer to your question, you can still go to uni, but really would you want to? Financially you would probably be a lot better off not doing so.
I can see why drop out rate is so high this coarse is bloody hard. Really requires work, sometimes i think of swapping to another coarse but dont want to waste more time. Guess i have to get off my arse and do homework regularly lol.
A couple of points >>> From an Macroeconomic perspective:1) This Government is the highest taxing government in the history of Australia. Fact.2) This Government runs the country more like a company than any other pervious Government - attempting to balance the books, so to speak, and make an impact on our National Debt (Budget Surplus).So that's the trade off, I'm not expressing an opinion, just stating facts...However, let me ask you a question:If you worked for a company - would yo prefer that your company was making a profit or losing money? If the former - what sacrifices are you willing to make? Conversely: how long could you expect to thrive in a company that continually made a loss?In Denmark, where living standards are considered amongst the highest in the world, income tax is something like 84%, they certainly pay for a high standard of living. You also have to do National Service in Denmark! - so we are not as badly off as some! I'm making no comment on the structure of taxing and expenditure, just the holistic effect of present Macroeconomic policy.. What is your opinion?
Or you can give the Goverment.... ..the finger when you graduate, and move permanently overseas, leaving your debt behind. I predict this is going to be a popular choice for some degrees The interesting thing that happened last night was the fact that the news had a story on school teachers vowing to strike till they get their pay rise. They are only earning about $40k per year, so who in hell is going to become a teacher in the future if you have to pay a fortune to earn bugger all:|
