I think it was pretty early in the build, he had bought the parts but getting them all to work together, now that could get tricky. That cost is probably less than 1/2 of what he would end up spending, if not more. By parting it out now, he will probably get 60-70% back. If sold when the car is finished, he would be lucky to get half his money back. There would be a few that disagree with this. Didn't John at UAS snap or bend a girdle in the slotcar? Greg of SpecialityZ said the steel girdles do show some signs of chatter on the High HP set ups. I intend to run a billet girdle.
There is a lot to be said about proper assembly and technique. Not to mention oil clearances and so forth. For those that plan to run the car 85-90% pure hardcore racing...i would lean towards making a girdle...the rest....I wouldn't bother as you can run safely with what comes from the factory.
Girdle? Stock girdle? Dangerous with really big power. Nissan Motorsports USA ( no longer) but when they were around had hundreds of employees and engine dyno's said stock girdle was good for 750hp then can and do fail. For their race engines they used to make billet steel girdle tied to the block walls and mod to make 4 bolt main and dry sump. See Escort Z article below, runs dry sump and only 1000hp flywheel hp not 1300whp unless they upgraded after this article? Bottom end would be far from stock, for even 1000hp. http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0204tur_escort_drag_racing_nissan_300zx/index.html It probably runs crank tirgeer and cam sensor rather than a crank angle sensor, and does not run VVT, same as we did on our race car.
Escort Z runs a stock girdle. I know this because I used to frequent their shop in California years ago and got several chances to look all through that car/engine. I don't doubt you in saying that for added durability an upgraded girdle is needed. This application never saw any use but the long block itself is still around and I'm currently modifying it to suit a new clients needs/wants. I'm not sure why you dug this thread up. Its been such a long time since I posted it.
Someone mentioned us and issues with bottom end, which I only saw a week back. We have seen fretting of the girdle to block on big hp engines and broke a girdle on our race car about 7 years ago at around 450rwkw (610hp) We did have some issues with CAS at the time. Re Escort interesting and did they cryo treat it or convert to 4 bolt or anything? Is it reliable? What hp is it actually or what times has it run?
Escort runs a factory stock crank girdle. They use ARP hardware. The car last dyno'd around 1300rwhp and its fastest time was in the mid to low 7s. I am not sure on what changes they've done since then but back when I frequented their shop thats what I saw and took note on.
Eight main bearing studs with bugger all else to support 1300whp? That is 160whp per stud, sorry but I'm finding that hard to accept.
I have over the past year been discussing with Bill Dailey (Dailey Engineering) regarding drysump and girdle flex issues. We originally attamepted to design a new system for the VG30DETT integrating a girdle into the new sump. But the risks and cost were too high with different expansion rates with the different metals involved. Bill who also worked for Electramotive Inc. as the lead engineer on the Nissan VG-30 turbo engine. he advised "If you are not failing the main support but seeing moving around that is just the nature of a high horsepower small package. The vg-30 with our cast iron main support showed signs of movement." Also talking with Steve Millen on Wednesday about his IMSA Z and it turns out it actually had a custom cast aluminium block. Used the stock heads, but the block is custom. So during that era they did not really do anything with the VG30DETT block. Bill said this about his work at that time "The dett motor was a specific designed block we did and was all aluminum with a deep skirt and individual main caps. The early version of the vg30 single cam was the motor I designed as a retro to the stock block with the main support." My opinion (and I am no mechanic) is the issue with high horsepower Z's is oil starvation due to lack of dry sump system, rather than girdle flex. I will be installing the drysump system Bill designed shortly VG30DETT dry sump and then I will see what limits we can get out of the VG30DETT
wow thats nice ... you run factory girdle with that ? girdle movement and flex are not the same ... L19 studs may help with a walking girdle
You wants to play with the big boys you gots to have the $$$ Should yield a tiny increase in HP due to lower crank case pressure, might make the engine last longer IF it has had oil surge & starvation issues.
Dry sump I never had oiling issues, with slightly modified stock sump and ran with and without Acusump and no problem after 40 plus track days, over about 5 years. The girdle and two bolt mains are the weak point. I run this sump on VQ35, which is a girdle and sump in one.http://www.daileyengineering.com/vq_35.htm
you don't have to accept anything...no ones making you swallow this information. I'm telling you what I know and have seen. And thats what they are/were running at the time. I am not in the know now as what they have modified (if any) to their assembly to date.
correct E-motive casted a slew of almuminum blocks for their applications. There have been a few for sale here in the US but for an extreme premium. I will also agree with you in regards to the VGs lack luster performance is mainly due to big issues with oiling. Good looking setup btw. Glad you are taking the steps to building a proper setup for a dedicated application. Good luck
L19 will result in those having to line hone the mains to properly reset the main bores once tq'd down to the specificed value of 95ft lbs which is 20ft lbs over stock. Honestly if a girdle addition was to be fabbed on top of the current setup that would enable a better approach. IMO...take it for what its worth....the L19 studs are not required and will yield you having to spend money in an area that the majority of the time doesn't need to be altered unless you have an out of spec unit to start with.
A decent ECU with the correct sensors will soon tell you if you are having an issue with oil starvation Mike, the Link G4 will actually log oil pressure for you if you set it all up as will many others. I would have been inclined to spend the money on the ECU to check the performance of the oil system BEFORE spending the big dollars on the dry sump system Did your old engine show any signs of starvation of the bearings? Mine showed signs of some trouble on a couple of the big ends the last time but that is far more likely to be from other issues rather than needing a dry sump. (other issues being a whopping great hole in a piston causing all the oil to blow out the breather system). I intend to get an oil sender attached and sending to the ECU very shortly & IF there are issues then the sump will get modified as far as is sensible for the dollars involved. VG30DETT lack lustre performance :rofl: someone needs a reality check, it's fine for what it is.
