Discussion in 'Non-Z Related' started by Anti, Apr 5, 2014.
Does anyone here have good experience with this?
Good for a drag car, really really shit on a street car. You ever pick a decent sized A2W cooler up? Heavy as shit compared to a good tube/fin fmic. Not to mention you have to refill the icebox up VERY OFTEN. Dyno results not massively better than a regular FMIC either. So as i said, good for drags (7/8/9/10 second squirts), waste of time, money, space and weight for a street car.
Bit of generalising there dude - water to air intercooling is named so because as standard the intercoolers are cooled with WATER, not ice all the time. Weight differences between cores will obviously differ from core to core depending on application too.
My boss has w2a on his petrol hilux for wheeling (also has an aftermarket highmount conversion) it is really effective, his whole intake is about 1/2 a mtr long he has instant boost (probably due to the tiny turbo) and the intercooler keeps the intake charge cool to the touch, a lot cooler than pre cooler pipework is I dont have actual figures but you could come close to burning your hand pre intercooler and post would be lucky to be 30*c (luke warm) for wheeling where he often gets low airspeed over the engine and any area he would have mounted an A2A cooler its a great option. It is however a bit fiddly getting plumbed up and I am always weary of the cooler leaking into the intake.
His one is similar to this http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PLAZMAMA...=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item257d353653
Yes, however the best systems use ice(i'm talking 1500+HP cars). Under 25PSI these guys don't even bother with A2W. Remember while an A2A will heatsoak, Water can get HOT and takes longer to cool back to ambient than a FMIC. So tell me, why are you considering adding a A2W cooler and where do you plan to put it?
before we even go further, what car/setup is this going on?
The amount of time taken to cool the water in the system will vary: ideally the heat exchanger will have a higher cooling capability than the WTA core itself. Heat soak is a concern after the car is parked and is cooling down (much like the coolant temperature rising once the car is stopped).
I'm playing with a few ideas at the moment and am researching in depth before I actually make plans. I'm interested due to the super short intake tract potential.
Your thinking of something different Nem.
You are right though ice box intercoolers are great for drags but not much else because of having to refresh ice.
But a2w work very well, obviously more complex to install but lend them selves well to certain installations.
A really cool use of this style is on the Stillen supercharger upgrade for the 370Z, the intercooler is integrated into the intake plenum, being more efficient it can be smaller, so complexity wise its not to bad other then the extra water pump.
You are exactly right Brisz. The Stillen kit is where I got the idea - we have carried out the kit a number of times at work.
The Bullet supercharger for the 86 also incorporates a similar design of WTA cooler inside the intake manifold:
I mentioned ice boxes because what you have pictured above is a complete waste of time and i never thought anyone would bother Where will you fit a decent sized core under a zeds plenum? I know the above setup very well as they run them on supercharged falcons(new fg gt-p's). A better way would be this:
But then again you are still going to have to run a lot of piping/custom crap to run it....... gain vs benefit....
Easier way is just delete the intercoolers and run water/meth injection. Much lighter too.
This is what I am considering for my NJ pajero turbo conversion..... the old v6 just dont have quite the poke for the razorbacks around here and I hope smaller snail that boosts early will work wonders on the factory low comp engine
Why precisely is it a complete waste of time? I have seen the above set up in action a number of times and it works bloody well.
The only difference between your pic and the stillen is that the WTA is external to the manifold and there's the addition of an ice box, obviously not for street use. WTA cores can be inline as you know, so why must it fit in a z32 manifold?
GT-Ps are not fitted with any intercooler from the factory, they are only WTA via after market conversions - that also work bloody well. Current model Merc, Range Rovers, Jag and Ford supercharged models are WTA cooled from the factory.
If you were as convincing as you are close minded on the subject I'd have written off the idea by now.
So you mentioned something that is a complete waste of time for a street car because your opinion was that a2w is a waste of time ?
No one said anything about putting an intercooler under a Z32's plenum, the 370Z was "A really cool use of this style" (a2w), its "in" the plenum not under it. Some really nice work by Stillen.
Please also note the thread is in "Non-Z Related".
Yes much like a rear mount turbo that you seem to be fond of.
Good luck getting a water/meth setup over the pits.
It is good and I thought long and hard about it. Biggest thing is where to put it and weight. Z1 experimented with it but gave it up. Zed downfall really comes down to packaging.
At your power level you won't need it. I use nitrous to cool it?
Tell us about Z1's research?
Z1 with all their resources gave up because a good a2a cooler setup works well for 1000hp+..
Consider thread destroyed under a layer of burbling BS.
Exactly what people say when they cannot reply with something clever... all out of idea's hey?
I never said the A2W is bad or crap or anything like that, all i'm saying is that in a zed it may not be the best idea......in a wrx or something like that, why not, replace the TMIC with a small W2A and it should work great.....but hey, give me a general idea where this W2A cooler would be placed that wouldn't block flow to the radiator or would decrease the amount of pipework by a considerable amount.
Not really just arguments for and against. See link for z1 kit.
Packaging is the problem
Redesign the plenum to include your a2w cooler with side mount throttles straight off the turbo. But then I think your swapping 1 heat exchanger each side with 2.
Is that what it is ?
Are you sure you shouldn't put the pipe down and let go of you insecurities about trying to be a forum racer who hasn't finished shit out of several proposed projects ?
The initial discussion was never about Z32, its in non Z related and although the OP may be considering it, it was about a2w in general.
I know you want the rest of the forum to know "you know boats" but it gets tiresome when it becomes as above, pointless and stupid.
But I guess if you want to bag a2w and stand on Steve Millens shoulders and call yourself tall, by all means, all you forum hero.
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