PST Carbon Fibre Tailshaft Failure

Discussion in 'Z32 Technical' started by rob260, Oct 4, 2010.

  1. Wizard

    Wizard Kerb side Prophet

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    Damn Rob

    That should cure anyone from entertaing the idea of getting one.:eek:
    Your guinea pig testers badge is in the mail.:D
     
  2. badxtc

    badxtc kirby's bitch

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    im a little worried about the single breaking under load have not really seen a zed bust one up but its on my mind , im thinking the 2 piece will be better suited for hi HP zeds ,
    so the plan was to go 2 piece with molly, or even just say with the stock one ,
    maybe im just being a little paranoid about " drive shafts " but when the go at hi speeds they leave mass destruction behind them.

    i have NOT seen this happen in a zed , i guess the CF would eliminate the damage to the car or us in fact ,

    i am running a single as ive said , but maybe its time to go back to stock form

    what are we really gaining from a single light weight , a little bit of power , im just not seing the benefits right now ,
    there are many people who have killed the CF your self being one of them rom has as well USA have as well , so now the CF is out of my mind , so really looking for something the will be safe and strong , sometime you dont know when they are going to let go there really is no sigh , but when the steel one goes ( at the front after the box ) we may find our self in a bad spot .

    ( just something thats been on my mind about drive shaft , there strength , reliability , and the safty aspect of it all . something to think about .

    rob your thoughts ?
    and anyone have any thought of what ive just said ?
     
  3. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

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    Alex I understand what you're saying, although in a high heat/high hp situation is the centre bearing then a candidate for failure? I don't know...

    Single piece chrome molly shouldn't break but then you don't really know do you? I wonder if Z1 could make a two piece alloy shaft with serviceable unis etc. I might send them an email.

    Will chat to JP too see what he thinks.
     
  4. badxtc

    badxtc kirby's bitch

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    yeah find out what you can ill have a chat with some people as well , and see what we come up with, so far the info i have by ( in the know how people ) is to stay with the stock one or the stock set up with moly tubing , i really really think that the stock set up with moly tubing is the way to go . i guess it will give us some sort of security , as we know drive shaft can really do a lot of damage to us and the car . i guess for X mount of HP is it worth it , sooner or later it may very well give up , and in all honesty we are really gaining nothing by going after market in this area ( and it is ( or can be ) a dangerous area we are playing with )
     
  5. BLACK BEAST

    BLACK BEAST SLICKTOP TT R-SPEC

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    AGAIN !:confused:

    broke in the same place?

    Do you think it has something to do with the UAS designed dumps running close inside the tunnel .

    I have no heat shields .
    Been giving mine a beating and driving in hot days ..(touch wood :p)

    .


    .
     
  6. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep again and same problem -the bond between the yoke and the shaft fails. Funny thing is after leaving it overnight I was able to drive the car into the garage today -presumably it has re-set after cooling down.

    There's a heap of shielding between the dump/engine pipes and the point of failure. The dumps themselves are HPC coated, then there is a layer of that heat wrap stuff, then there is heat shielding in the form of the actual heat shields.

    I think it's a question of heat soak more than anything else. Likewise I've given it a fair flogging at various times, but it seems to be low speed/load driving all day in hot weather that does it. Exactly the same as when it failed in Brissie (light driving but had been on the road all day). It has been OK for two years since the previous failure so I think the nature of the failure depends very much on the right (or wrong depending on your point of view) conditions being present.

    Glad yours is OK but I would be replacing it sooner rather than later. Sell the thing on ebay or what have you. I think you'll be OK running it on track days etc but had you driving it from Sydney to PI for example you have run into trouble...
     
  7. BLACK BEAST

    BLACK BEAST SLICKTOP TT R-SPEC

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    I can tell you now hpc coating and shielding doesn't work as good as you think ..I know this with my fuel lines and dump pipe.
    Its always better to have hot things further away than trying to shield the heat .. it still eventually heat soaks like you say.

    I'll see how things go as I'm still a fan ..might just be my exhaust being further away .. time will tell


    edit ..makes sense ...funny how you say at low speeds ..(heat rises).. ..maybe I drive faster and removes heat from my exhaust ..:p
    my whole exhaust is ceramic hpc coated up to the mufflers ,whether that makes a difference
     
  8. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

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    Can only wish you luck..... want to buy a spare?
     
  9. BLACK BEAST

    BLACK BEAST SLICKTOP TT R-SPEC

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    yes.. but CHEAP because they are prone to breaking :rofl:
     
  10. magsy

    magsy New Member

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    lol
     
  11. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

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    Couple of pics

    Pulled the shaft out today. Got a couple of pics, not very good quality on account of being snapped off on the iphone but you get the idea.

    First the shaft in situ.

    You can see the fibres lining the transmission tunnel

    [​IMG]

    And one of the bond between the shaft and the yoke. Fibres around the bonded area too.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Chrispy

    Chrispy Pretentious Upstart

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    Chinese safety boots :p

    Sucks about the drive shaft though :( CRMO next time?
     
  13. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

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    Hahah safety boots... it's just a shame I didn't have any beers in the fridge!

    Yeah getting a moly shaft made up
     
  14. tassuperkart

    tassuperkart Its a lie I tell you!

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    Look on the brightside, you have lots of nice and new bits to have a nice, strong and importantly reliable steel shaft made that weighs, I dunno, what, a couple of kilos more perhaps?
    CF tailshafts...pff, what a wank.

    E
     
  15. 8300zx9

    8300zx9 Active Member

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    So it's a CF shaft with an ally tube in the middle? Makes me wonder what the full CF shafts are like that are found on some supercars :/
     
  16. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

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    Not c/f over alloy; it's a carbon shaft bonded to alloy yoke.

    I suspect that OEM applications are better engineered in terms of keeping heat away from the shaft.
     
  17. badxtc

    badxtc kirby's bitch

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    stock or single rob ?
     
  18. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

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    single -I'm getting it made by the same guys that do PAC performance 7 second RX7 driveline, they reckon there's no chance I'll break it. Aussie supplier too so they'll have to wear it in person if it ****s up!
     
  19. badxtc

    badxtc kirby's bitch

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    ok cool , so your plan is to go single, moly , ok let us know how you go. i might do the same .
     
  20. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

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    Will do man -pulled the shaft out this week so that I can drop it over to them (they've done Z32 shafts before but always a safer bet if they have a template to confirm dimensions and bolt pattern etc) this week.

    Going to have a bit more a chat re wall thickness, weight, which unis they use etc etc and I'll keep you posted as I go.
     

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