BDE water pump, what fan do people use

Discussion in 'Z32 Technical' started by MORBOOST, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. MORBOOST

    MORBOOST Member

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  2. Boll!

    Boll! Member

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    From what i understand, it think the 16'' Spal extreme fan is one of the best around.
    Ill be using one on my single turbo build as i have had some great reports about them.
     
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  3. geron

    geron National Petroleum Equipm

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    If you go electric, I suggest to use a vented nose panel with big holes. This will allow air flow to the top of the radiator. It will make a big difference especially when going up long hills at crawl speed stuck behind someone and especially on a hot day.

    The bottom bumper bar opening is not large enough for adequate air flow. Especially on the pre-2000 series Z32s where the majority of the air flows to the bottom of the radiator.
     
  4. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

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    You can’t beat standard pump and fan...
     
  5. MORBOOST

    MORBOOST Member

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    while I agree, for the single throttle intake it means the stock fan has to go.
    If you where to couple the BDE pump with an astra power steering pump and a/c delete the true benefits would be unlocked.
     
  6. MORBOOST

    MORBOOST Member

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    Good info, rechecking the ashspec kit this is what they supply.
     
  7. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

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    Another reason not to use the POS (the manifold)...

    I couldn’t believe my good fortune when somebody agreed to pay a reasonable sum for my twin pass radiator with spal extreme fan. Will never fit an electric fan to my own car again and would advise others against doing it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
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  8. Boll!

    Boll! Member

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    Somthing to check, I don’t think the SPAL 16” extreme have a sealed motor
     
  9. MORBOOST

    MORBOOST Member

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    Yet you sell bde water pumps that require an electric fan
    Name another manifold that makes power over 7,000rpm
     
  10. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

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    Do I? Strange can’t find them on the website lol.
     
  11. MORBOOST

    MORBOOST Member

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    That's why I said you not RGS, unless the one you sold the other day was the same one from 2013, lol
     
  12. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

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    Sorry? No that was a relic from my own project that I sold to someone whom I’ve multiple times not to go electric. End of the day some people think they know best and I was happy to move it on.
     
  13. LitlElvis

    LitlElvis Z32 Servant

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    Unfortunately, the electric water pump didn't work out the way I hoped it would, so I sold the rights and designs for it to Concept Z in 2012. The only good application for the e-pump is a drag car to help cool it down between rounds, and then the quality or size of a fan doesn't really matter... unless you're up against some really short turn-around times.

    Electric water pump manufacturers quote flow rates (like 20 to 55 gallons per minute) that really are not achievable if you take into account a car's entire cooling system - for instance the CSR pump motors I used, rated at 35 gpm, only flowed 7 gpm when tested on a complete Z32/VG. For comparison, the stock belt-driven pump (stock damper and pulley sizes) does 7 gpm at 2000 RPM(engine), maxes out at 34gpm at 5000 RPM, and then drops from there. All flow tests used a stock thermostat which was fixed in the full-open position and the thermostat bypass was blocked off to ensure 100% of the flow went through the measuring instrument rather than recirculate.
     
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  14. MORBOOST

    MORBOOST Member

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    Your right in saying it really is a drag racing application and the effort you put in to sit down and nut out the design isn't lost on me, like I was saying to rob260 the true benefit would be felt coupled with an astra power steering pump and no A/c(you probably didn't get these in the sates, a mass produced electric powersteering pump that alot of the big power street GTRs builds use)

    If you want another project to work out, think about making a mount and drive solution for the hex drive mechanical fuel pumps off one of the cam gears, no idea what sort of market there is for these, but they are becoming common on rb, 2j and 4g63 builds as people are getting sick of running 3 of 4 buzzing fuel pumps to keep up with the demands of e85.

    rb
    [​IMG]
    2j
    [​IMG]
    4g63
    [​IMG]
     
  15. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

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    Dude there is no benefit; the electronic water pump doesn’t move water through the block at the same rate as an oem pump and there’s no fan available to couple with it that moves as much air as the oem fan. It’s a recipe for overheating. This is nothing new.
     
  16. MORBOOST

    MORBOOST Member

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    drag cars don't over heat between runs is what BDE stated, I agreed. The benefit to BDE design was to remove a power rubbing belt from the crank not a superior cooling solution, as does removing a power steering belt and a/c belt. You have added nothing of value to this discussion.
     
  17. Shane001

    Shane001 Well-Known Member

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    The other big benefit of an electric water pump is you can continue running the pump after the engine is shut down. This helps to remove heat soak from the engine and turbos as the water continues to circulate until you turn the pump off. This is the point BDE was making in his post above.

    Also good for circuit racecars that are running turbos red hot to remove heat soak when returning to the pits. I haven't checked my turbos on the 300ZX, but my old Supra the turbo literally was still glowing bright red when I'd return to the pits!
     
  18. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

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    Lol drag cars don’t turn corners either so no needn’t for electric power steering pumps.

    It sounds like you have it all figured out good luck with your plans.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018 at 2:55 PM
  19. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

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    Hi Shane yes I understand that but with the pump circulating 20% the volume of water while the car is flat stock you’re asking trouble except for very very very specific applications.

    Put it this way if it was better more people would be doing it, the tech is nothing new.

    Also consider the engine is not a perfect machine and the more power it makes the more heat it generates in lost energy. Cool down in the pits is all well and good but the water needs to be transferring heat away from the block and heads at full noise. Even with reduced airflow from slowing down the pump (compared to stock) the difference can be measured on the dyno.
     
  20. Shane001

    Shane001 Well-Known Member

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    Rob I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, again ;)

    I agree the factory fan and shroud is going to be more effective at moving air through the radiator than most electric fans, but for applications like mine the factory fan just isn't an option.

    re electric water pumps, interesting reading the testing BDE did on their pumps. Previously I've used the Davies Craig pump and it seemed to flow enough water to keep up with a big single on a 1JZ OK, moving to this was an improvement over the stock water pump. It did overheat constantly though but that was down to having a big single intercooler blocking out the radiator. The rad never got clean cool air. That was my next modification after Bathurst but sadly the mountain killed her before I was able to change/test this.

    I've also read that a factory belt driven water pump can cause cavitation at high rpm, so the other benefit of an EWP is constant speed. No I haven't tested this but yes it does make sense. Also another reason why it's a good idea to go electric for power steering if you're constantly redlining the engine.

    Also a lot of people are doing it in motorsport (EWP, EPS, etc).
     

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