Taurus E-Fan Conversion

Discussion in 'Technical' started by jschrauwen, Oct 4, 2013.

  1. jschrauwen

    jschrauwen My Fairlady Z

    I finally finished my Taurus E-Fan conversion.

    New 1995 Taurus E-Fan.
    [​IMG]
    The left side was slightly trimmed and the top center tab was removed.


    The bottom of the fan had a large gap that needed to be closed up.
    [​IMG]


    I used some malleable plastic that I cut to size and heated to roughly the countour of the fan shroud and then rivetted into place.
    [​IMG]


    Inside view of shroud plastic cover.
    [​IMG]




    Aluminum radiator modification.
    The two top bungs would be used to hold the upper part of the fan in place.
    Two more aluminum bungs were added to the lower part of the radiator.
    As well, the larger bung for the Audi Thermosensor was added.
    [​IMG]


    Mounting the fan to the radiator.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]




    New 1990 Audi 2 Speed Radiator Thermosensor with custom aluminum bung.
    Low Speed ON - 167F (75C)
    Low Speed OFF - 158F (70C)
    High Speed ON - 180F (82C)
    High Speed OFF - 170F (77C)
    [​IMG]



    Hollister Road Fan Relay Kit
    http://www.hollisterroad.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MarkVIII
    [​IMG]


    Modified Hollister Road Fan Relay Kit
    Substituted the 8ga main battery feed wire for 4ga multi-strand cable
    Various relay wires cut to length and covered with cable protectors.
    Top left is an inline 7.5A fuse for the relays connected to an available ignition switched 12V source to ensure fan will only come on when the ignition is on.
    [​IMG]


    Metrapac 630 connector kit used for fan main power feed (on the right).
    Two Ground connections (to the left) for fan and for thermosensor.
    Mian 50A slow-blo fuse (bottom left).
    [​IMG]


    Fan power feed (with Metrapac connector) lines marked for High speed, Low Speed and ground.
    [​IMG]


    Audi Thermosensor Connector purchased from local VW audi shop.
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]




    After install.

    From the top.
    [​IMG]

    Heaps of clearance.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    From the bottom looking up.
    [​IMG]

    From the bottom again.
    [​IMG]

    From the bottom looking at the thermosensor.
    [​IMG]





    Testing the Audi Thermosensor
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOuNreEindQ


    Testing complete Taurus E-Fan system
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmj-h8ZE3-o
    Testing confirmed that the low speed thermosensor on-off trigger thresholds are not consistant with advertised thresholds. I attribute that to mounting the thermosensor on the lower portion of the end tank as opposed to the upper most portion where the coolant coming in from the engine would be hotter. Basically, the distance between the oem coolant temp sensor and the Audi thermosensor is creating the variance in triggering thresholds observed.

    The results so far look promising and I`ll reserve final judgement til after a road test.
     
  2. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    Nice job on the install but your temperature sensor is going to be be horribly inaccurate mounted where it is.

    And no thermo fan setup is going to work as well as the OEM fan...
     
  3. Anti

    Anti 14.7 x 14.7 = 44.1

    Nice install dude. Too bad it's such an ugly fan, haha.
     
  4. tassuperkart

    tassuperkart Its a lie I tell you!

    If someone MUST remove the stock fan, clutch and shroud assembly, which is unbeatable, then this particular installation seves as an example of excellent practice.

    Really impressive setup and installation. *salutes*

    When using OEM thermal switches, its reasonably important to position the switches in similar/same position as on the donor car so switchon/over points are consistent with specified temps.
    In some cases, the switches are placed somewhere near the suction/outlet area of the radiator measuring the cold side.
    Others are placed right up on the thermostat housing measuring actual coolant temp just past the thermostat and others somewhere inbetween mid radiator.
    Its just the way that manufacturer felt best to sense water temp in relation to switchon/over temps when designing that particular system.

    Temps can vary so much over the area of the radiator.
    On my Ute, with a very basic single pass and single core radiator and in/out hoses on the same side, coolant temp can be hot enough, when idling (*low water flow), to have the fan running (88Deg.C) yet the far side of the radiator which has no fan, can be only be barely warm to touch!
    Not a lot of imagination required to work out what might happen with a switch placed over in that tank!!

    E
     
  5. minivan

    minivan Guinea Pig Test Monkey

    best writeup i've seen of a taurus e-fan conversion so far

    very detailed pics

    cheers

    mines in the post at the moment, although ill be using my haltech to control it

    given the temps that fan is activated on with the audi sensor id say the bottom of the tank is correct.. if it was taking it straight from the sensor it would be on high speed permanently as the water bypassing the thermostat is hotter than its high on setting
     
  6. jschrauwen

    jschrauwen My Fairlady Z

    I'm not sure if you guys watched the 2 videos at the end. They should give you a pretty good indication of the fan's effectiveness.
    The coolant temp via ECUtalk/Ipaq went from 172F to 162F in less than 45 seconds. i'd say that's quite significant.
    After I originally got the Audi thermosensor I felt that maybe it's turn on/off thresholds were a little too much on the cold side.
    Low Speed ON - 167F (75C)
    Low Speed OFF - 158F (70C)
    High Speed ON - 180F (82C)
    High Speed OFF - 170F (77C)
    I felt that by placing the thermosensor closest to the thermostat as possible would mean an overall colder running condition. By placing it where I did, I now have the low speed turn on threshold shift from 167F to 172F and the turn off from 158F to 162F. That on/off range is consistent with the thermosensor's design so I'd say it's quite accurate. The placement of the thermosensor was intentional in this way and I basically got the results I was shooting for.

    Some other Taurus fan users opted for a used one from a wrecking yard. And it has been working well for them. I see the oem fan clutch having (or perhaps less than) the same life expentancy as an oem Taurus fan. A new Taurus fan is almost half the cost of a new fan clutch.
    I don't know about others but some may be running a slightly deffective fan clutch and don't really know it. An efan basically works or it don't.

    I forgot to mention that the whole perimeter of the fan has a perfect seal using self adheasive foam stripping.
     
  7. tassuperkart

    tassuperkart Its a lie I tell you!

    You might be closer to the stock position than you might have realised.

    The fan on/off figures will be at the sensor. RADIATOR water temps, not at the engine see?
    So your prolly a lot closer to correct ENGINE water temps than at first glance.

    Id say youve fudged it perfectly.
    Done well young man!!

    E
     
  8. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    It's not a bad approximation, but the radiator can be 15* or so cooler than the coolant leaving the engine (yes I have checked comparing temperature at stock sender location on top hardpipe to temperature at the radiator), the difference is even more significant during warmup as the it takes some time for the radiator to "warm up" once the thermostat opens. Actually looking again the sensor is mounted in the bottom of the tank in the OP's install, so it is probably even cooler than where I measured from at the top of the tank. So even more inaccurate.

    It's a nice install but the whole setup operates on a "best guess". Definitely not the best way to do things when you're using "cooling" and "Z32" in the same sentence.

    The right way to do it as you know would be programmable ECU switching, not hard to do with Nistune or stand alone ECU.

    As I said not bagging his efforts, but anyone reading this needs and considering doing the same needs to know this is not a "good" way to do it -at best it will be "good enough".

    Also having another look it seems a large part of the radiator is not covered by the shroud??

    Again very nice work putting it together, nowhere near as good as stock and definitely not the best way to do a thermofan install...

    Again, not bagging, but factual discussion is a good thing in a tech section...
     
  9. tassuperkart

    tassuperkart Its a lie I tell you!

    Yup exactly. This will explain the apparently low fan switchpoints quoted for the SWITCH.
    If the engine is up to temp, thermostat open and fans off, it hardly matters as the water entering the engine will still be significantly cooler so the engine wont get hot at all.

    Its just a different way of going about the same job.

    You directly control the temp of the radiator, as in this case, More or less independently of the engine.

    Or, you can control water temp in the radiator as a function of the engine water temp...

    6 of 1, half dozen of other. Manufacturers go either way but largely, they use the switch in the radiator rather than the engine coolant temp switch.

    Both methods achieve the same outcome at the end of the day.
    The manufacturers must know something!

    E
     
  10. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    The lower switching points are because that's the switch that FORD chose from the Tridon catalogue for use in the Taurus. It's a guess at what's needed with the Z32.

    Yes water temperature in the radiator will be cooler than the motor, but try giving a TT Zed some stick without any fan and see how long it takes for the temps to rise. In fact give it some stick WITH the thermofan and you'll see the temps respond very quickly.

    Oversimplifying much? In the OEM setup the temperature at the radiator is controlled independantly, and the thermostat regulates the temperature at the motor. In the setup posted above the thermostat is wide open before the fan switches on, and the best you you can hope for is that the fan drops the temperatures in the radiator fast and that this cooler water is moved fast enough to react to rising temps IN the motor, which will have risen (and be rising faster) long before the temperature change is registered at the radiator. It's not the same thing, it's not even close.

    I'm not sure how many different ways to say it but for anyone contemplating this setup it's not the same as factory, it doesn't work the same as factory, it's not the best way to do a thermofan install and it doesn't work the same way as measuring the water temps coming out of the block. Do what you like with your own cars but do so with an informed opinion, not an assumption that this or similar setup will be as good as what Nissan fit.

    Oh and yes I agree the manufacturers must know something; Nissan did an awesome job of designing a good cooling system for the Zed.
     
  11. tassuperkart

    tassuperkart Its a lie I tell you!

    Well pretty simply M8, manufacturers seem to use the radiator mounted switch as opposed to the engine mounted fan switch. In the same manner the clutch fan uses radiator water temp to control its speed.
    So in essence, this system is very close indeed to stock.
    They must have a reason for this. No matter how you look at it, they prolly know just a little more about cooling that you or I dont you think?

    E
     
  12. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    Sure, no probs with that at all. Do YOU think manufacturers design cooling systems or just mix and match components and hope for the best? As a point of interest a "standard" thermostat for a Taurus opens at about 87*C, and a performance one at about 82*C (according to a quick browse of ford forums, so correct me if I'm misinformed). Wouldn't that suggest the Taurus, with its 75* switch, is designed to run a fair bit hotter than your average z32?
     
  13. minivan

    minivan Guinea Pig Test Monkey

    wait till you see minivans taurus, electric waterpump, haltech configuration mwahahaha.. screw nissan engineers.. what do they know!.. they engineered this in the 80s when mullets were cool.. things change


     
  14. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    You mean they're not cool?

    What you're doing (computer controlled) is worlds apart (in terms of controls etc) from what John posted in this thread. Hope you're making a proper shroud too ;)
     
  15. tassuperkart

    tassuperkart Its a lie I tell you!

    I dont think, I KNOW the manufacturers spend gazillions getting cooling systems to work right.

    Best part of that is they design up all these funky parts we can use in our own setups. This particular E-fan setup will far easily outperform any other fan only installation.
    Strange how the closer custom setups get to looking like stock, from almost anything, the better they perform!!!!

    I dont follow your other reasoning on anything else to do with Taurus engine temps and Zeds, comparisons and so-on.
    Sorry. Thats something thats between you and well... you.

    Cheers
    E
     
  16. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    With only 4/5 of the radiator shrouded and fan staying off until the engine is well past operating range? Sure it will, if you say so.
     
  17. minivan

    minivan Guinea Pig Test Monkey

    haha.. i have a mullet wig i wear to bogan partys.. they are cool..

    I'm going to roll with the stock taurus shroud till my data logger tells me to do otherwise.. ill have 3 stages on the electric water pump and 2 stages on the fan.. when it runs out of cooling abilities, then the last 30mm of the rad will be shoruded

    otherwise i would have bought the late 90s taurus fan which the fan bolts on seperatly to the shroud

    [​IMG]

    remember.. there was no 1993 ford taurus fan around in 1990 when my car was made.. nissan did the best with what they had.. lol


     
  18. jschrauwen

    jschrauwen My Fairlady Z

    I'll try to address the various areas of contention that might have some concerned.
    Of course these are my own views/take on the subject but it might shed some light as to why and how I did what I did.

    First of all, I don't want it to be assumed that I feel that the oem fan/fan clutch set-up is lacking or not up to par. I feel it's adequate in doing the job it was intended to do but of course within it's own limitations.

    A little history first. Even after changing out my oem rad for an after market one, I found I was encountering (what I believed to be) higher than average/normal coolant temperatures. I tried all sorts of remedies not realizing that the oem fan clutch had basically fallen below normal operating specs. The fluid contained within the fan clutch had aparantly leaked out and to the best of my knowledge, it happened extremely slowly over a long period of time. There was no visual fluid leaks and the only thing that triggered me to thinking that was the case was a gritty/oily residue on the inside lip of the plastic fan. There were no extraneous sounds or noises that are usually prevalent to a faulty fan clutch. By all visual aspects, the oem fan clutch "appeared" to be functioning properly - but in reality, it was not.
    On spec, I replaced the oem fan clutch with another used (and assumed serviceable) oem fan clutch. The change was immediate and confirmed my suspicions about my original oem fan clutch.
    Will this current oem fan clutch go the same way? - I have no idea and I wasn't willing to play that guessing game again. I saw the cost of a new oem fan clutch at about the same time I started seeing threads on others doing E-fan conversions. This got me to thinking about going that route instead and I researched and read as much as I could on the subject.

    Here is my thinking on the subject.
    I would need to find a good reliable E-fan that produced about the same cfm as the oem fan.
    The e-fan chosen would have to be mounted to a shroud that would maximize it's effectiveness. Now this is where I found the differences between oem and e-fan. The oem fan shroud is by no means an effective means of maximizing the cfm generated by the oem fan. The oem fan shroud is not perfectly sealed unit to the rad. Given this shortcoming, an e-fan that has roughly the same cfm as the oem fan but can be better sealed against the rad could translate into a more effective cooling mechanism than oem. At least, that's how I see it.

    Yes, my Taurus e-fan only covers the top 90% (not 4/5) of the cooling surface, but because of the positions of the coolant inlet and outet, this means the upper most portion of the rad will be the hottest. This is why the Taurus fan is positioned as such.
    The Taurus e-fan has a rubber seal around the complete perimeter of it which guarantees maximum effectivenes. There are no gaps or leaks whatsoever.


    How effective is this Taurus e-fan?
    For over 3 years now I've been using my Ipaq PPC with ECUTalk. I've been monitoring my coolant temperatures realtime every time I use my Zed so I'm intimately in tune as to the nuances of the oem cooling mechanisms.
    If you watched the youtube video I made, you'll see that at idle it took 1:13 for the Taurus e-fan to bring the coolant temperature from 172F to 162F. I dare say my oem fan would take at least 5 maybe 10 minutes to do the same at idle.


    Mixing and matching.
    I'm not sure why mixing and matching components is viewed as a bad thing.
    Here's my take on it. As I mentioned earlier, I tried to educate myself as to what components work and whish don't. If you were to view the 3ZC thread on the subject, you can see all sorts of shortcomings and drawbacks to other zed owner's e-fan projects. Usually, there's at least one drawback to their installation that has negated from their overall success and effectiveness. It may have been poor e-fan selection and not choosing one with an edequate cfm rating. Was it a single speed fan, a 2 speed fan or a variable speed fan? Was it a single or dual fan? Was the fan size large enough? Were the fan blades of a better design? Were there enough fan blades? Was it being utilized as it was designed - a puller type of fan and not a push type with the polarity reversed. Lots of variables where one could fall short on.
    Or it may have been an ineffectual mounting of that e-fan that detracted from it's maximum performance. Was it mounted in such a fashion so that it would make a perfect seal to the cooling surface of the rad? How much of the rad did this fan cover?


    Triggering mechanisms.
    Thermosensor
    There's various ways to use as a triggering mechanism. One could be a probe type sensor that is required to be slid in between the cooling fins. That type could work, but from my research, it's not the better choice. There's a coolant thermosensor type (which I chose). I chose one that would provide 2 speed functionality and one that has proven itself in oem applications. I guess I should also mention that my daily driver is an Audi. My choice was one that appeared robust enough as it can function by two ways - as a ground triggering thermosensor or as a power feed triggering thermosensor. This particular 1990 Audi thermosensor can be used as a ground triggering mechanism for a stand alone relay unit or it can carry the fan fan power though relays as well.
    I chose to use it as a ground triggering mechanism. It's designed to be mounted on a rad which is what I did as well. This particular thermosensor can come in two different 2 speed temperature ratings. I chose the lower temperature rated one as the higher one was way too high for a Nissan application.
    Placement of the thermosensor on the rad was also given considerable thought. As I mentioned earlier, the turn-on / turn-off thresholds of that thermosensor were a little too cold for the Zed's operation. Mounting it nearest to the oem coolant temp sensors on the upper coolant hardpipe would mean that the fan would almost always be on low speed and would also mean an average engine running temperature too low/cold for normal engine and fuel map operations. In order to bring the thermosensor turn-on / turn-off points a little higher, placing it further downstream was required. Where downstream should it go? Well, that's where I had to take a chance and gamble on placing it on the inlet tank of the rad but down near the bottom of that end tank. By placing it there, I've moved the turn-on / turn-off thresholds (as seen by the ECU temp sensor) higher.
    Had the thermosensor been mounted where the oem coolant temp sensors are, the Low speed turn-on would have been 167F (75C). My current placement now has the low speed turn-on at 172F (78C) and turn off has also changed from 158F (70C) to 162F (72C). Although not tested as of yet, I would venture to say the the high speed thresholds may have also moved proportionally to the right as well. More to follow on that part.
    I think this configuration should work just fine.

    Relays
    I had gone through various decisions in this area before settling with the Hollister Road Relay Kit. This particular kit was solely designed for the Lincoln MK VIII and Taurus applications so right there I knew I was headed in the right direction. I spoke directly with the owner/manufacturer numerous times before and after purchase and got fabulous support in every aspect. He quickly cleared up any reservations I had about this relay kit and educated me on the finer aspects of cooling fan relay systems. His choice of relays (high grade german design) were encouraging, the amperage rating were well beyond fan requirements which was a big plus which made me feel very confident about the product. The built in (slo-blo) main fuse and it's amperage rating were also a strong point. I also confirmed with the manufacturer the relay's compatibility with my chosen thermosensor.
    I've already seen a number of e-fan issues that others have experienced due to their choice in a relay set-up that wasn't designed for the demands placed on it by the Taurus fan.
    The youtube video showed the consistant turn-on / turn-off points of the (low speed).
    My youtube video of the thermosensor also showed the effectiveness of the thermosensor working with the relays through manual jumping.

    As far as mixing and matching goes, I think I've found a pretty effective combination at this point. I'm not saying it's the best, but at this point, it sure looks like I've made the right choices. *fingers crossed* lol :D



    Overall impact.
    If you saw the youtube video, you may have also noticed that I also had my ECUtalk/Ipaq displaying the system voltage at the same time as the coolant temperature.
    You should have seen that there was no significant event (spike) ecountered by the systems charging system when the e-fan was triggered on. I ensured that area was also covered as I have a high output alternator in use as well. The charging system is more than capable of handling the current draw of the Taurus fan.
    I should also make note that the relay design is such that it will always cycle through the low speed prior to going high speed. This was a system design of that relay kit to prevent the fan from going directly to high speed and causing a shock in current draw to the charging system.
    Please note that I'm also running a Nismo thermostat. Just in case some were curious.
     
  19. mungyz

    mungyz Well-Known Member

    What's the CFM rating of these fans?

    Current draw at a given voltage?

    Just curious.

    It looks like you have at least put in the effort to try and do this correctly John although I'll give you a heads up:

    With a Z1/Howe radiator fitted to my own Z with a Spal 16" 3000CFM efan with full rad shroud it couldn't keep up and after just three laps of my local track was starting to get up there in the temps.
    Removed that setup at the track in pits and fitted an OEM fan, even without the shroud it was able to keep the temps FAR cooler and well within safe range.

    I seriously doubt there is an E fan out there that can keep up with the cooling requirements of a TT Z32 with big HP on a track.

    Plenty of guys who just run on the street use and swear by them, I spent the time and effort doing a considerable amount of testing and concluded they simply do not do the job they need to. Maybe this Ford part (you sick bastard!) has the edge over the high performance Italian (probably made in china) unit.
     
  20. jschrauwen

    jschrauwen My Fairlady Z

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