Suspension & Cooling- Righting some wrongs.

Discussion in 'Technical' started by Central QLD Z, Aug 2, 2017.

  1. Central QLD Z

    Central QLD Z Member

    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Rockhampton
    Hello Guys,

    Firstly I am no mechanic. I am paying for any and all work done. Whilst that's not ideal that's how it is for me. Plus, I'd sooner pay a professional for peace of minds sake especially on a car like the 300. After all, if you can't do it right, don't do it.

    Mechanically my 300 z32 TT manual is running fine, ive pumped cash into it and everything that needed to be done, has been.

    My attention then turned towards the running gear. It had massive (illegal) 225/35/20 fronts and 245/35/20 rears With the existing coilovers wound right up to fit these on the corners. The ride was understandably crap.

    I've since swapped those wheels and tyres out for a more comfortable and sensible 225/40/18 on the fronts and 245/40/18 on the rear and was able to give the coilovers some measure of movement. The ride comfort just with that extra rubber though...wow.

    I've got the SPL Toe rod Hicas lockout kit ready to instal along with a set of z1 FUCA. The toe rods needed to be replaced and my wheels wouldn't hold an alignment with the HICAS so I figured instead of maintaining it, I'd do the all to popular delete. Any thoughts regarding whether that's the right move as it isn't done yet?

    I'm also looking at replacing the current coilovers with some Stance XR1's. Any thoughts about this product? I was mulling over some Tein SS or even some Tein Flex Z's. Any other recommendations or things I should be considering?

    My next fix up is the cooling..its currently got a front mounted intercooler, single cold air intake (that is what it is isn't it? It's like a cone filter) stock oil cooler and radiator. I also think there's another type of smaller radiator behind the oil cooler, but in front of the radiator. I don't know what that is, perhaps someone could enlighten me? How any air gets to the radiator I'll never know..

    I want to get that FMIC out in favour of some SMIC, perhaps Stillen or those Z1 ones. Upgrade the oil cooler and radiator aswell. Will this make a difference to the overall heat in the engine bay? I am talking to my mechanic on Monday but would love to be armed with even more knowledge before then.

    Opinions, recommendations, thoughts anything really will be gladly received.

    Thank you all very much in advance,
    Anthony
     
  2. Boorkus

    Boorkus Member

    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I've heard very good things about the Tein SS. For street/dailying, I'd recommend the Tein SS or Powetrix SS(s?). Both have higher spring rates than stock (stock is ~2.5kg/mm front, 3kg/mm rear). I think from memory the tein SS has 4.5kg rates. The Tein Flex Z's I'd stay away from for dailying - they're up near the 6/7kg/mm springrates. As for ride comfort, I'm using 255/40 R17s on the rear and 235/45 R17 on the front. That was very nice ride with stock suspension. Might I suggest dropping a few inches off the wheel diameter to 18" ish.

    Heat in the engine bay will always be a problem with these cars regardless of radiator/FMIC choice, unless you get bonnet grills/scoops to vent hot air. A larger radiator and FMIC will only reduce engine/intake air temps and perhaps that might make a difference to bay temperature. I can recommend going to a full aluminium radiator and ditching the crap plastic-tank OEM style rads.

    The "smaller radiator behind the oil cooler" is your AC condenser...
    Also unless you're tracking the car, I don't think an oil cooler is worth the money... Unless your old one has crapped out. An oil pressure and temperature gauge would be a smarter investment to see the car's oil health instead.

    A decent set of SMICs will be a lot less work than a massive FMIC and will probably net similar results unless you're using stupidly massive turbos. Stock turbos will work very nicely with some high quality upgraded SMICs with good ducting and airflow. This means you'll be paying less in installation and won't have to cut/modify nearly as much to get a new intercooler in.
     
    Central QLD Z likes this.
  3. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,028
    Likes Received:
    211
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Sydney (North)
    Stick with oem front camber arms those Z1 will flog out in no time (if reports from owners in the USA are anything to go by). I believe member shineyzx has some front arms with new nismo bushes for sale if your stock arms are worn out.
     
  4. Central QLD Z

    Central QLD Z Member

    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Rockhampton
    Ah yep, forget to mention the Powertrix Sport Street Coilovers, they are looking quite good. It seems like everyone on the old interwebs is recommending Powertrix's, so I guess there must be something to them! and yeah, I did ditch the 20's and am running 18's now, it makes a helluva difference! ;)

    Right, any thoughts on the Z1 Howe Radiator ? Surely my wanting to ditch the current FMIC will allow more airflow back into the radiator and be somewhat of a good step in a better breathing engine? Will it be a difficult job to convert from a FMIC back to SMIC for a qualified mechanic? I understand you can't make an informed call without viewing it, but just generally speaking would it be a difficult conversion.

    Thanks for that :)
    I have no intention on tracking it, it's purely a weekender that I can take out for a trip to the beach or into the mountains here and there to stretch it legs. The only reason I was thinking about the oil cooler upgrade was purely because it still has the stock cooler in place and figured that it'd need doing sooner or later. That gauge sounds like sound advice thanks for that

    The current turbos aren't stock, they are slightly larger, but not by much at all, I cannot for the life of me remember exactly what they were :(

    Thanks for the reply mate
     
  5. Central QLD Z

    Central QLD Z Member

    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Rockhampton
    Ahh I've already purchased them, they're sitting in the boot waiting for the install on the Monday coming.

    Flog out in no time though, mother*****:mad: Figured that buying through a mob like that i'd have to be getting some good gear, I mean they charge good money, and I even google street viewed the buggers and seen the shed with all the 300's out the front. Honestly thought I was getting the good gear and have done a lot of looking around for gear using their prices.

    Would you not recommend any of their speciality "Z1" gear?
    Can I ask who you purchase parts from?
     
  6. Boorkus

    Boorkus Member

    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Intercooler:
    Ah I assumed you were running the stock SMICs.... that's where my assumption was coming from - "it will require relatively little effort to install new SMICs in place of the old ones" is where I was coming from. Very little hosing needs rerouting. If you already have a FMIC, I'd stick to another FMIC. Depends on what quotes you get from shops to get it done, that will be the deciding factor. The only "issue" involved with going back to a SMIC setup from a FMIC setup is you'll need a whole bunch of new intake/charge tubing to reroute to the new SMICs instead of to the single FMIC. There's additional cost in parts and labour there.

    Extra airflow to the radiator might be the only benefit I can see to going to SMICs over FMIC. FWIW my TT has a great big f*ck off FMIC and it's never come close to overheating in WA 40 degree summers. Probably due to the Koyorad aluminium racing rad it has, and maybe slightly because I drive like a granny on sedatives most of the time. Koyorad can be bought straight out of japan or bought in australia, saving on shipping from Z1 in the US. The Howe radiator though... does look good. Significantly thicker than mine which is nice, not sure what it'd do to cold warmup times and idle/driveability in cold winters though...

    As for "stupidly large turbos" I'm referring to GT2860Rs or larger. If you're running GT2560Rs, JWT500s or the Garrett replacements, you don't reeeally need especially large intercooler(s) for them. Just larger than stock with an aftermarket 2.5" intake will be plenty fine for the "smaller"/stock turbos.
     
    Central QLD Z likes this.
  7. Shane001

    Shane001 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,835
    Likes Received:
    39
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Rob that's a bold comment to make. Have you got any links to back this up?
     
  8. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,028
    Likes Received:
    211
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Sydney (North)
    Checkout twinturbo.net or the US based Facebook groups. There's plenty of info out there.
     
  9. Fists

    Fists Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,453
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48
    The vast majority of FMICs only remove the rubber pipes directly attached to the coolers, they use the rest of the oem piping. So to go from an FMIC to SMICs you need the coolers obviously, plus some stock brackets and a set of hoses that connect to to the cooler as included in this kit https://www.z1motorsports.com/z1-pr.../z1-sidemount-intercoolers-smic-set-p-71.html I wouldn't necessarily recommend changing the intercooler but if you aren't interested in adding any extra ventilation and your engine fan/fan shroud are in good condition it's probably about the only improvement to cooling available one you've got a new, clean radiator.

    Do note that a lot of the larger SMICs require modification to the indicator bodies to fit so do a little research on that before choosing/installing.
    Are you running a stock front bumper?
     
  10. rob260

    rob260 Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,028
    Likes Received:
    211
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Sydney (North)
    Not at all, but those arms have very soft bushes which really reduces service life. Front control arms on the Z32 are a bit finicky, unless you need on car adjustability your best solution is to go stock arms and space them out if you need to correct negative camber.

    I don't buy retail lol
     
  11. Central QLD Z

    Central QLD Z Member

    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Rockhampton
    Benefits of going back to SMIC don't out-way the costs then ?

    Well shit, if that works for you out there, I should be right!
    Can I ask you to elaborate on what you mean by "Not sure what it'd do to cold warmup times and idle/driveability in cold winters"? Sorry if it's obvious, but if I don't ask, I won't know ;)

    Thanks for your replies mate, it's appreciated.

    Can I pick your brain on the clutch and flywheel?
    Is this an engine pull job or can the front end be removed to replace? The parts are fine for the moment, am simply thinking in terms of preventative maintenance. If it was an engine pull, I might hold off. I probably should of thought about the upgrade when the timing belt was done..
    What's your opinion on this : https://www.z1motorsports.com/z1-pr...urbo-tt-clutch-and-flywheel-combo-p-1837.html Was thinking about the "Mild Performance" variant with the lightweight clutch disc.
     
  12. Central QLD Z

    Central QLD Z Member

    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Rockhampton
    I was looking at that set aswell. I just want to do what I can to allow the engine to breath and I cannot for the life of me see how any air gets through all the obstructions. But I'm on here looking for the advice of those that know more than I, so it seems that both of you are saying to stay with the FMIC and the upgraded radiator is what I need to be thinking about.

    I did read about the modification to the indicator bodies aswell, it did give me pause for a moment, and yeah, another reason to ask on here.

    and I'm running a Veilside kit.
     
  13. Boorkus

    Boorkus Member

    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I don't really see the point to going *back* to SMICs due to the extra amount of screwing around required and the additional cost incurred with new intake piping required... Unless you do really find that you are really in need of more airflow to the rad or have the cash to throw at it *shrugs*.

    Clutch and flywheel can be done with the engine in, just have to drop the exhaust, downpipes can stay in (barely), and drop driveshaft and then the tranny. If you're doing the flywheel, it's certainly very worthwhile considering doing the rear main seal too. That, however, requires the oil pan to be removed (to do it properly). Which in turn requires engine lift or the subframe dropped. (see the imgur album for my engine swap down the bottom).

    As for the clutch/flywheel combo you've linked, I can't comment too much because I haven't used those exact ones. They look good enough at face value though. I have an Xtreme cushion button clutch (http://i.imgur.com/DY0Mzqn.jpg) and Fidanza Aluminium lightweight Flywheel. PO put them on the car. When I did my engine swap, replaced them with the same again because I liked the feel of both of them. The Fidanza flywheel is - in my opinion - better, as it has a replaceable friction surface (http://i.imgur.com/OHr3LiT.jpg) as opposed to the OEM or Z1 style ones that require a machine shop to reface them every time you need to get the flywheel resurfaced. Probably about the same in terms of cost though (machining versus new friction plate).
    As far as driveability, I can 10/10 recommend a lightened flywheel. Makes throttle response much more lively, and blipshifting and rev matching is much more enjoyable. Perhaps just a tiny bit easier to stall it while driving in car parks, but if you're gentle with the clutch and throttle you'll be fine. These cars don't exactly lack torque.

    For dailying, that style of "heavy duty" or "semi organic" style clutch with the full-ring of friction material is better. Stay away from "puck" or "racing" style ones unless you really hate yourself. Full-ring ones last a lot longer than the cushion button clutches. Cushion button clutches are nice and bitey which is good, but they're still smooth enough that they're very nice to drive softly and not too harsh at all. Kinda like the best of both worlds in terms of feel. They just don't last long - my last one lasted ~40k kms or so. Feels great, doesn't last long (lol). Personally, I'd buy an Xtreme or Exedy Heavy Duty clutch locally and save on the shipping. Or, I can highly recommend the Xtreme cushion button ceramic clutches for feel.

    Check out my imgur album to see what it was like while I swapped my engine: http://imgur.com/a/OgDjF
    I'm /u/boorkus on Reddit FWIW.
     
  14. Boorkus

    Boorkus Member

    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    As for large radiator cold startups/cold performance: It's unconfirmed by myself (I haven't personally observed it) where running too large a radiator in cold weather could cause the engine to run too cold, supposedly causing issues where the ECU doesn't properly get to "warmed up running" mode - stays stuck in open-loop warmup mode and runs like crap. I think this is mostly an issue with smaller cars that don't produce nearly as much heat as a VG30DETT does. Going to a super-thick radiator might not be entirely necessary in your case, unless you start tracking the car.
    I think a full-aluminium radiator like mine will be sufficient for street, no need for something massive.
     
  15. Shane001

    Shane001 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,835
    Likes Received:
    39
    Trophy Points:
    48
    The radiator size should have no bearing on engine warm up, provided of course you have a healthy thermostat.

    The function of a healthy thermostat is to bypass the radiator until a certain temperature is reached.
     
  16. Fists

    Fists Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,453
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48
    For the 300zx this is indeed a non-issue as it uses a bypass style thermostat and circulate the water in the engine until hot enough. In other engines that use a non-bypass thermostat it's possible to impare temperature control since the water doesn't flow around the engine hot water builds up at the thermostat until hot enough to open it, then if the radiator is way oversized (like, 15L coolant in a 3cyl NA engine) the water that's let out will quickly be replaced by ambient temp water which will hit the temp sensor before closing the thermostat and repeat the cycle.
    http://www.are.com.au/feat/techt/thermostat.htm
     
  17. Boorkus

    Boorkus Member

    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    yeah didn't think it'd actually be much of an issue for Zs, just thought I'd mention it
     
  18. Central QLD Z

    Central QLD Z Member

    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Rockhampton
    I don't think anyone has the cash to throw around these days, but if I were to put my chips on the table I'd say that I picked it up for 8k, spent the same again on the motor and am looking at spending 5-6k on the running gear and breather mods and maybe another thousand on the brakes. After that i'll look into the interior/sound and the auto electrics (my dash lights don't work) I know that sometimes the dimmer not being plugged in when the facia is removed and replaced can be the cause, but alas, not this time. I might be into it maybe $31k by the end? But probably be pretty safe to make it $40k considering there seems to be a never ending amount of small parts that really up the overall price. I daresay that some on here spend far more even with having the ability to do competent work themselves. I would put a photo of my Z up my profile pic, but I may get called a ricer and frowned upon. But I didn't buy back into the 300 game for how it is now, but for what it can be.

    That's good to know mate, thanks to you and the other forum members for having patience with me and my lack of understanding. In all honesty I was hesitant to post on here - particularly after looking at the rebuild thread. It seemed like all members have built their 300's from the ground up which is super impressive and I am supremely envious of.

    How often would the flywheel need to be machined under normal circumstances when it's not a daily?
    Yeah, I'm looking at the lightened flywheel myself.

    Less replacing I do, the better, I think I might stay away from the ceramic clutches me thinks!

    I've actually already looked at that I didn't realise it was you until I followed the link and started thinking that i'd seen those photos before.

    Can we talk brakes quickly?

    What is everyone running? I think a big brake kit is overkill for my purposes and was mulling over https://www.z1motorsports.com/z1-products/z1-motorsports/z32-performance-brake-package-p-1460.html It seems that slotted rotors may be the better idea. Drilled seems to be purely for aesthetics with no real benefits?
     
  19. Central QLD Z

    Central QLD Z Member

    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Rockhampton
    Cheers for the info, I was looking at replacing the thermostat with a mishimoto one aswell so that shouldn't be a drama ;)
     
  20. Boorkus

    Boorkus Member

    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Flywheel machining is typically done with the clutch replacement - gives a nice flat new surface area for the new clutch to bed into. The replacement friction plate was $90 shipped from ConceptZ or eBay I think... I'd had quotes for another car's flywheel to be machined, and that was $80-120 if I brought it to them.

    As for brakes, I can't comment on actual use of products - running stock (TT) brakes with Bendix Ceramic Ultimate premium pads. Plenty good enough for street, not so sure about heavy twisties (etc) use.

    My opinion on the matter is:

    Get plain rotors, it's really not worth getting slotted or drilled rotors. Not worth the extra cost and literally no benefit for street use (or track use... really...).
    The claim with drilled/slotted rotors is they "allow better offgassing" and "clean the pads" or something...
    Realistically speaking, the slots and drilled holes create raised stress points which will tend to promote a higher chance of premature failure due to cracking/warping. The thing I look for in brake rotors: Quality. This means DBA, Brembo or Stoptech (to name a few etc). Some people seem to hate on RDA/eBay mystery brakes so I'd probably away from them.
    Quality, and proper airflow characteristics (e.g. DBA's "Kangaroo paw" or stoptech's supposedly proprietary internal fin design).

    I was looking at getting DBA slotted rotors purely because I don't drive my Z nearly enough, and the rotors get a layer of rust on them. I feel as though the slots would only be useful here because they would help get rust dust off/out of the pads and keep the brakepad surface fresh before they glaze up like they did last time. It will decrease pad life, and certainly make a huge dusty mess inside my wheels. Plus slotted rotors *look* aggressive. Depends on what look you're going for with your car.

    If I was to do a BBK upgrade: I'd buy the BBK calipers, lines, and adaptors from Z1 or ConceptZ, and then buy DBA 4000 series plain vented brake rotors locally from Sparesbox or something and save on shipping. High quality plain vented rotors like DBA 4000 heavy Duty rotors, and EBC yellow pads or Stoptech/Project Mu pads will set you up well.
     

Share This Page