In the words of the Immortal Bard...."Methinks you protest too much".:thumbup: BTW, just in case you were serious, I can answer your question re: "see what moves"......The Brake Pedal.
sounds like you have covered everything chilli , what a frustrating problem huh , if it was me id be revisisting the wheel bearing install ,if you have not done so already , are they sitting in right, ect , .
You are right on the money when you say "frustrating". With regards the wheel bearings, how can they NOT be sitting in correctly, when there is a circlip that has to be inserted to keep them in place(presumably), so if they aren't pressed in the full distance, the circlip won't go into it's locating groove. Trouble with me is that I am a victim of logic, everything HAS TO MAKE SENSE or it's just plain wrong. But here, I'm confronted by things that defy logic, and therefore CAN'T HAPPEN, but they are happening.
Yes Chris, it is possible, but in this instance both circlips have been removed and re-fitted(and one front Hub/Axle has also been replaced). Even if the circlips did fail, there is no way that the inner & outer tapered bearings could get out of alignment(relative to each other), due to the fact that they are both located on the Hub Axle Shaft, inside the Bearing Outer Casing, and are clamped into opposing ends of that casing by a tensioned Locknut on one end, and the Wheel Mounting Flange on the other. That would still be so, even if the Bearing Outer Casing was able to move laterally within the Knuckle. I'm a mechanical genius, aren't I, so WTF can't I find the source of this problem?:zlove::zlove: Can you imagine the bill I would get from a workshop, trying to solve this? Thanks for all the continued suggestions guys, they have ALL been helpful(because you reach a point where you lose track of what you've done, so far, and the outside ideas bring you back to the hunt). :thumbup::zlove: The Battle continues.........
Considering the circumstances I think it is worth checking the bearing, and possibly changing with another one.
They came from Allied Bearings in FNQ, do you want to pop up there and grab me a pair? Remember there are two pair of front wheel bearings, which do you suggest I change? All donations welcome! Cheers mate Lloyd
Get me the bearing numbers, I'll see if I can get cheap ones. We use heaps of bearings at work and get good prices...
Well, With enormous help from Matt(Wokburner), we did a complete Brake Fluid flush and bleed of the ABS and total Braking System today(Thanks Matt, you're a champ). We also checked and inspected all suspension ball joints and bushes, ran a dial gauge over the discs, applied Anti Squeal Grease(no, not between the discs and pads), and replaced a split Steering Rack Boot. Results are, 1: No more brake squeal, 2: No run-out or cracks in any disc(and no incorrect fittment of same), 3: Some movement in R/H Rear Outer U/Cntl Arm Bush, and in R/H HICAS Steering Arm(both items currently on order). 4: No shudder when braking from moderate speeds(80-90kph), with gentle brake applications(this is a definite improvement), 5: Continued violent shuddering at most speeds(if brakes applied firmly). The search continues....... P.S. Also had a ride in Matt's Zed(newly fitted with an NA Diff). Instant tail-out wheel-spin in almost any gear, and a number of 4 wheel drifts through very tight, narrow bends on cliff-top roads(my Doctor says with rest and proper medication, I should be able to re-join the motoring public before too long).:vomit:
Surly that must be the problem. I bet you, if you greased the discs up properly, the shudder would go away.
I know it's a long shot but if your mechanic wasn't as careful as he should have been, there may be a bit of dirt/grit between the tapered shaft and the bearing itself causing the bearing not to seat quite properly although the snap ring is still in place. After reading through this post, the one thing that jumps out at me is that this has only started since replacing the bearings. Maybe one or both of the bearings are faulty somehow. A slightly incorrect taper perhaps. Whatever the problem, I hope you sort it soon. I'm looking forward to seeing what the solution is. Cheers
Couple of questions........ 1/ does the steering wheel have any "shimmy" in it at any speeds even tho the brakes are NOT being applied ? 2/ does the car pull up straight when the brakes are applied or does it pull to one side slightly ? 3/ has anyone followed behind you or in front to observe the car .... a/ just during normal driving & b/ during light braking & c/ during heavy braking ? if so...... have they noticed anything like.... A/ the car crabbing or B/ the car pitching to one side ( body roll style) or C/ the car tending to 'tram track' slightly ? 4/ When this "violent shudder" starts... which way does the steering wheel tend to dive off to first ? ( this will give an indication as to which side of the brake system is faulty ) 5/ Does the "violent shudder" stop the instant the braking pressure is released or does it continue momentarily ? Apart from the rear braking system faults that I raised earlier, I'm now wondering if one of the front calipers isnt faulty or damaged ........ answers to the above questions may help Kingy
1/ does the steering wheel have any "shimmy" in it at any speeds even tho the brakes are NOT being applied ? NO 2/ does the car pull up straight when the brakes are applied or does it pull to one side slightly ? YES, pulls up straight. 3/ has anyone followed behind you or in front to observe the car .... a/ just during normal driving & NO b/ during light braking & NO c/ during heavy braking ? NO if so...... have they noticed anything like.... A/ the car crabbing or B/ the car pitching to one side ( body roll style) or C/ the car tending to 'tram track' slightly ? 4/ When this "violent shudder" starts... which way does the steering wheel tend to dive off to first ? ( this will give an indication as to which side of the brake system is faulty ) THE CAR REMAINS STABLE(the steering wheel vibrates up & down and side to side). 5/ Does the "violent shudder" stop the instant the braking pressure is released or does it continue momentarily ? YES, stops immediately. Apart from the rear braking system faults that I raised earlier, I'm now wondering if one of the front calipers isnt faulty or damaged ........ answers to the above questions may help
Careful Stef, such an answer without use of smilies or a disclaimer might result in Chili and Wiz actually beliving you to be serious :thumbup:
Nobody is going To take ist prize away from you greg, no matter how you try to water it down, Anyway I find Stefs suggestion quite credible and have no doubt it would work. :thumbup:
Like many others... ...I have been following this thread with increasing frustration. I can only imagine how you are feeling about it Lloyd. (Now put that Molotov cocktail down - I mean now!). Reverting back to my engineering training of sooo long ago, what we have here is a faulty component hiding itself among a myriad of other components. The bad bit misbehaves in service but passes all the static tests designed to reveal it. It is the true faultergeist. Rather than testing and re-testing the existing status quo, recognise that no static test can ever reproduce in service conditions, and that our demon has no problem is hiding from those tests. He needs to be revealed in another way. I would recommend you replace each and every component of the braking system/control arms/hubs and bearings with a known good set from another car or cars. If your demon is still there after doing that, the good news is that all of those components have passed. The bad news is that you need to look somewhere else - hair cracked subframe or other bit, out of round bush or bushes, misaligned chassis, but let's not go there yet. If as I suspect the replacement braking/suspension system behaves itself, it is then a matter of adding back the Chili-bits one component at a time until our faultergeist is forced to reveal itself. This is all somewhat akin to an exorcism. As I said before mate, happy to contribute anything I might have on my car(s) or workshop shelf in this honorable quest. It should make a great Tech article once it is all done and dusted.
Wow I cant believe your still working on this! Any chance the rotors have deep hard spots and need replacement? (machining will not remove hard spots) Maybe you could borrow a set of rotors (known to be in good condition) and see if the shudder disappears
