Need some advice on failed waterpump and consequential damage.... :( (abit long)

Discussion in 'Technical' started by sandeep, Jul 9, 2007.

  1. sandeep

    sandeep Active Member

    Yeah I'm pretty sure the 100k was done but now I have no idea what parts were put in and what wasn't. I guess that's why it pays to do the work yourself... this way you know what parts are in there.

    I was searching on electric thermo fans but most of the people say that they prefer the stock clutch fan and most go back to it after trying the electric fan. Also did abit of searching on electric waterpumps but some people have said it doesn't flow as much...

    I may consider just the thermo fan depending on the shape of my current fan seeing as I'm running a relatively stock NA... a new one will cost me $200 :eek: but I'm not sure if the current one is cracked or chipped and an imbalance in the fan could cause the vibrations again... will get it properley checked out by Joe tomorrow and see what he advises.
  2. Gazza

    Gazza Active Member

    I would think that it would be pretty hard to bend the shaft from dropping it, the aluminium housing wouldnt be stong enough and would break first. It would probably make a fair amount of noise once running also if bent, so Id think the mechanic would of picked up on the problem before it left the workshop. I wouldnt think an over tightened fan belt would be enough to cause the damage either, the alternator bearing was damaged which can be from an over tightened belt, but if anything it should of just flogged out the bearing in the water pump also if that was the problem. Looking at the crack shape it could be from an imbalance in the sprocket/fan assembly but I think that is unlikely and its more likely a manufacturing defect (ie an undetected crack in the bar stock used for the shaft).
  3. sandeep

    sandeep Active Member


    Got a phone call from Joe... some good news but mainly bad news

    Bad News first...
    It was a nongenuine waterpump... he's kept it for me to keep so I'll put up some good photos of it when I get it. Hopefully this thread will come up in a search if someone ever thinks of putting in a non genuine water pump...
    Parts that need to be replaced:
    Nissan Waterpump
    Fan shroud
    Fan pulley (slightly bent from impact)
    Coolant fill
    New belts

    plus Labour...
    quoted price 710 dollars... very good price considering Joe's done a fair amount of work on the car to pull down the front of the engine not to mention putting it all back together later so i think i'm saving abit in the cost of labour.

    And the good news is that the rest of my 100k service was done using genuine Nissan parts so that's all good. I was more worried about having to redo this more than anything else...

    Thanks to everyone for giving their advice thus far, but just a few more questions:
    Should I go to the manufacturer of the waterpump and ask for a re-imbursement? Or should I pay a visit to the mechanic that did the work and installed the part and try and get him to help me out, even just as a warning so he knows that the nongenuine parts are susceptible to premature failure, to prevent this from happening to anymore of his customers?
    Or should I not bother at all?

    Hopefully this is the end of my bad luck with this car... I keep replacing parts and yet she shows me no love back :( ...

  4. ed300zx

    ed300zx Active Member

    sorry to hear this happened in the first place..........but good to hear its all sorted mate......
  5. fradda

    fradda I've been everywhere man.

    Hi sandeep, its the old saying "nothing ventured nothing gained". Go and ring up ACCC they hear about this kind of stuff all the time. When you get the info even if its not in your favour play the bluff game tell the manufacturer that you have spoken to so and so from the ACCC and that you are going to take this further if not properly looked after. You have nothing to lose with them right now so give it a go, oh and dont speak to first person that answers the phone next one up or higher!!!!! tell them about the forum etc and the contacts you have and the market that will listen to you etc etc...they will listen if they will lose money and get a bad name about thier product...just realised if the product is made O/S and havn't a accredited office in Aust there might be a problem but get your facts straight before you get into them, screaming and carrying on wont get a hear, hit them were it hurts back pocket,
    all the best Jorge fradda..
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2007
  6. Gazza

    Gazza Active Member

    You should tell the original mechanic and show him the pics, who knows maybe even he was duped into thinking it was a genuine part, but he probably thought it wouldnt make any difference anyway so you can convince him with the evidence.
    If your pissed off you should pursue the manufacturer, in the very least you may be able to get some interest in actually investigating why their part failed and altering the error in manufacture, though I think they would know but cant afford to make the pumps better and still be as competitive.
    Personally Id just put it down to experience and move on, your pics and story on here are a good enough warning to everyone to only use a genuine pump.
  7. fradda

    fradda I've been everywhere man.

    I agree tell the mechanic aswell but give it ago I used to be a dont worry sort, until I met my beloved wife:D she doesnt let anything go even if maccas missed a burger etc she gets ppl to listen and I have learnt off her(dont ever tell her that lol) you have nothing to lose except a few phone calls a fax and pics of the product. You just might get something back you never know;)
  8. Stef

    Stef Active Member

    Just because it is a non genuine Nissan part, does not necessarily mean it is of substandard quality, even if may look like it in this case.

    You still don't know if the failure was due to

    * Manufacturing defect in the pump
    * Pump got damaged before or as it was installed
    * Belts were overtightened and put undue strain onto the pump AND alternator
    * Fan was badly installed or out of balance

    Remember that the alternator bearings also failed. A weakness in the pumps shaft should not have affected the alternator, but a bent shaft might have. However, if the belt was not overly tight, the vibrations transferred to / from the alternator would not have been too large.

    To me, overtightened belt or a bent pump shaft seem like the most likely cause. Wobbly shaft putting a large load on the alternator bearings.
  9. sandeep

    sandeep Active Member

    Thanks for all the advice. First priority is putting together the money to pay the bill. When I collect the car I'll also collect all the damaged parts and take photos and put them up here so you can get a better idea of how the part failed.
    The pics I put up aren't that clear and I didn't get a good look at the shaft but one thing that might help me is doing engineering at uni. I can go back to the materials labs and get some expert opinions from my tutors and lecturers as they all study fatigue and shear stress all day long. I hated the materials subject but at least doing it last year will help me now.
    Then I'll decide what I should do. They should be able to advise me if it was a fatigue related failure or a manufacturing defect. Then if they do think it was a defective part I'll have a chat to the ACCC and the manufacturer.
    Not really sure what I should tell the old mechanic. I never actually asked for genuine nissan parts, I just agreed that the 100k service was needed and asked him to do it. This was in the first week of me owning the zed so I didn't really know much at all about 100k services and what parts need to be used. So I don't think it's his fault that the part broke but I should tell him just incase so he doesn't use the non genuine parts again. He may have only used it on this occasion to save me a few dollars but in the end it wasn't really worth it. Hopefully any other zeds that had 100k services done there will be ok.
  10. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    Does your previous mechanic offer any kind of warranty? Even if they don't i think you should get in touch (or better yet it sounds like you are mates with joe maybe he can call them?) and tell them what's happened. They might want to help they might not, but if you don't contact them then you're not giving them the opportunity to do the right thing. Whatever that is.
  11. sandeep

    sandeep Active Member

    Would certainly be interesting to hear the conversation between Joe and my old mech (his old employer...) but I think he's helped me enough already. So I'll probably handle it myself and if the manufacturer needs an experts opinion then I'll ask him to help me out.
    But yes I will pay a visit to the old mech, I think it's probably in the interests of other forum members and his other customers that I let him know this happened.
  12. LOWZX

    LOWZX Banned

    i cant believe nobody is asking this,i suppose they have scanned your previous posts
    well nobody else is asking so i will,it was ***** who you took the car to wasnt it ?????
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2007
  13. MikeZ32

    MikeZ32 das Über member

    simmo, sandeep prefers not to disclose and we should try and respect that mate.

    anyway, this is awful mate and i hope you're still coming along to the skidpan day. would suck to not come along to the event you put so much effort into organizing. if you need a ride, i'll be the first to offer :biggrin:
  14. sandeep

    sandeep Active Member

    yeah I'll definately be at the skidpan day man, rain, hail or shine... well maybe not hail... but yeah i'm getting the car back tomoz so i'll be happy.

    and there was a reason i didn't name the workshop, as far as i am aware they aren't on the forums so it's not really fair for me to name them as they can't defend themselves. I'd rather get the otherside of the story sorted rather than giving them a bad review. I can't put the blame for the part failure on this workshop and there was never an agreement that genuine nissan parts would be used (i had no idea back then, if i knew about non genuine waterpumps being prone to failure I would have asked).

    so many times on this forum a workshop has been named and shamed (particularly here in victoria) and the workshop has no way to defend themselves (although a few members often defend particular workshops) and the workshop would have no idea that this defamation is going on. And it does influence other member's views which isn't really fair to the business as we are not getting the full story. I know just by reading the many threads on another z workshop that I wouldn't take my car there, simply based on other member's stories. I really don't want a defamation case atm, so i left the name out.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2007
  15. ryanlok15

    ryanlok15 red zedder

    good to hear that you got the car back man...but i hope you figure this out man so someone can reimburse you or something...see how things go and let us know:cool:
  16. Stef

    Stef Active Member

    Good on ya mate.

    Everybody have their good and bad days, and a workshop often gets blamed for unrelated problems by ignorant customers that don't know a bolt from a screw from a nut.

    We have seen a few people rambling madly and throwing unaccounted accusations around lately.

    You should not blame anybody until you know for sure they are at fault, and then it may still be the temp or the apprentice that screwed up. If you can't prove it and they will not admit it, just walk away and go elsewhere.

    I try to have a good trusty relationship with the people that work on my cars. If they screw up, I expect them to admit it and we organize who is going to carry the cost. When I work on my cars, I sometimes screw up and kick myself but get on with it.

  17. sandeep

    sandeep Active Member

    Car is back!!!! :) + pics

    Went and picked up the car just then... :) Happy to have it back so soon. Joe did a great job. The noise I was hearing is now gone so it was the sound of the alternator bearings and waterpump vibration (kind of like a gurgling noise, kind of low pitched and easily heard at idle).

    I got the old waterpump back too. It's branded "NPW" and says it's made in Japan. I had a quick look on google but couldn't find the NPW website so it's
    probably going to be difficult for me to get into contact with them...

    Here's some more pics of the waterpump....







    I'm going back to uni next week so I'll take both pieces down to the engineering labs for some opinions on how it failed.

    Hopefully it's just a once off failure, because I'd hate to see more threads popping up about non-genuine waterpump failure. The other member's (and non member's) who've had 100k services done at this workshop might want to keep an eye on their waterpumps and if you hear any sort of grinding/gurgling/vibrating from that area get it checked out asap.
    Hopefully my bad luck will deter anyone from knowingly using non-Nissan waterpumps.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2007
  18. Stef

    Stef Active Member

    Looks like you have some initial damage there on the shaft. Almost looks like a cut, nice and straight.

    A fatique crack needs a sharp edge to start from. It may grow slowly until suddenly bang.
  19. sandeep

    sandeep Active Member

    It's hard to tell from the pics but the small part of the sheared surface acutally is kind of like a rounded crack... it's hard to explain but it looks like the crack may have started slowly from here and then all of a sudden the shaft broke (the larger part of the surface)... I might bring it down to the skidpan day this saturday so people can see it.
  20. sandeep

    sandeep Active Member

    Also I was having another look just then and it looks like the grease inside the waterpump around the ball bearings is kind of sparkly. could possibly be little tiny fragments of metal from the shaft due to vibrations and wear.

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