You're a fool if you haven't researched and found that the VG30DE is a completely redesigned engine over the VG30E, there are only a couple of components that remain essentially the same - unfortunately the crank girdle is one of them. The block is a completely different unit with only the basic dimensions remaining the same to ensure minimal costs in tooling changes and downtime & as I have said before the crank & oil pump etc were all new items. The VG30DE was only used in three models as far as I am aware, Z31 (late model rare as hell NA only) the Z32 and the Cedric or what ever the hell the ugly thing is - maybe five at best. NOT the same motor as used in the Maxima, Navara, Terano etc etc, very poor argument. Lostsouls question still not answered with any technical info, saying you've made the crank more like Chevs design - what motor? what variant? Define High speed oiling system and low speed oiling system for all of us poor unknowledgable folks.
pathfinder/maxima/Z32/J30 and a few others I believe utilized the VG30DE and VG30E engine. The blocks are not that different from each other...and I'm not a fool...you need to chill with your statements man. You're getting a little overboard. VG30E vs the DE variant has a few details that were different...they are Deck was squared off for a larger foot print for the heads Heads went to a DOHC design Oil squirters were implemented on the DE Oil pumps were upgraded to support the added oil required for other parts in the engine crank went from a cast nitrided to a forged nitride unit Similarities same bore same stroke same coolant galley same girdle same bearing dimensions same rear main seal bracket You can swap quite a few parts from the Z32 to the Z31 platform. Chevy oiling systems are high speed. All are the same on the crankshafts for the SBC and BBC. I've explained the difference quite a few times. No ones unknowledgable. Your smartass antics are getting tiresome
My God! Well my experiences. Yes the stock oiling system is fine for low HP applications. If you want to start chasing horsepower then you probably need more oil (as Lostsoul talked about 3-4litres is bugger all). Also the Z engine holds a lot of oil in the heads and the boost keeps it up there. So for medium to high HP builds get some more oil. Either use a Spec Z sump or do what I did and that is use an external oil filter and larger oil cooler (or accumsump or the cool idea of twin oil coolers like Blackbeast said). These will give you a few extra litres in the lines and provided every thing else is good (especially your pick up which can often get damaged) you should be Ok. Both the street z 1500kg (400+KW) and the race Z 1400kg (360kw+) use this system and one engine is 3 years old, the other did almost ten years before its current rebuild. On the track again, no problems that I have seen with that race car even when running slicks. BUT with such a low volume of oil when you start pushing the limits of G forces you get oil starvation, not sure if Speciality Z's sump is good enough to address this, but I have my doubts, so then it is time to dry sump. This is what I experienced with the Silver Race Z 1250kg and 440kws, refer previous post. This is when all those bandaid solutions are no good. Sure you can surivive without it, but it is riskier and at those power levels the engine component costs are high - very high - so protecting that engine is important. One other big thing that some people don't realise is the stock oil cooler only sees approx 10-15% of the oil flow, this is due to restrictors in the oil tree. Nissan did this so that when people did not maintain the oil cooler it would not stop all oil flow. So a big advantage is to remove this restriction so 100% of the oil flows through the cooler and you get better cooling and therefore better engine oil performance. With all due respect to Mitch I don't agree with porting the oil pump, I don't think oil velocitiy is an issue, but maybe if he answers Lostsouls question we might all learn something. What my engine builder did on my last build though which was quite interesting, was install restrictors into the oil galleries going from the block to the head, with the intention of restricting oil flow to the head and minimising the amount of oil kept up in the heads/VCT/hydraulic lifters. Have not heard of this being done before, but he is one of the most respected Engine Builders in New Zealand. Below is some helpful info from Speciality Z's website (sure they are trying to sell the Dry sump) but they are well respected Z experts and they even mention me YAH famous Now not sure about the correctness of the "nissan wet sump road race Zs" as I have not seen any of these. I thought the Z32 IMSA cars used a custom alloy block based on the VG30DET design with Z32 heads mated to it with a custom dry sump system. From Dailey Engineering's website From a personal email from Bill Dailey Steve Millen confirmed the custom aluminium block last week when we were discussing his IMSA car at the Hampton Down event. So that's my three dollars worth - let the bashing begin. PS Mitch - despite me disagreeing with you re the oil velocity issue, if you do know where any of those aluminium blocks are could be interested.
I know of one of those IMSA engines that is for sale and a set of Doug nash heads (bare castings) They want a considerable amount of cash for the bare heads. $5000US for the bare castings and for the IMSA engine for the GTP class they wanted nearly $25000US. I have a customer in Canada that has 3 GTP engines he bought from Aussie a few years ago. He has a few sets of everything from what I recall but he isn't selling any of it. But to each their own on what they believe in the realm of the oiling systems. Its up for interpretation to anyone. My view is what I stand behind. Others have different views but I certainly don't come out and make synical statements trying to make others look ridiculous. I speak of what I know and what I do/have done and all of it works and I've yet to have any issues running my systems. Best of luck to others. What question were some wanting me to answer?
The differences between the engines used in the Pathfinder (Terano in JDM), Maxima, Cedric etc Vs the Z32 are FAR more than the changes you make to the oiling system Mr EPR. On one hand you call the stock system essentially junk but you claim to modify it to make it heaps better with small changes. On the other hand you throw all VG30s in the same basket and say they are all virtually the same when we all know they are hugely different when it comes to the important parts being discussed here. The oil pump doe not fit VG30e - VG30DE, the size and location of oil galleries is different VG30e - VG30DE, the sump is different, the oil pick up is different, the amount of oil required by the head is different etc etc etc The VG30DE IS NOT Nissans economy VG30e engine as used in the lower cost economy platforms, there was FAR more development and many more design changes done between the E - DE than you tiny little tickle up you perform. Overall the general opinion here appears to be the stock system does just fine up to a point & that point is over and above typical road car/odd playday at track. I'm not saying making improvements is a bad thing, I am saying telling people the stock system is crap and they need to make improvements IS a bad thing.
Mike the smaller oil jet to the hyd followers and VTC is a common mod to the RB26 engines used in race applications as they tend to send to much oil up top when high revs are maintained for long periods as well. The RB guys also remove the large plugs from the back of the head and install fittings to help with oil draining back to the sump, the VG30DE has the same plugs in the back of the heads. (about 3/4" if I remember right). This also helps with clearing oil away from the cam covers and reduces oil consumption from being sucked/blown out the ventilation system. ANYONE who fits solid followers should reduce the size of the oil jets in the block that supply the heads to reduce the flow. If you remove VTC the oil jets for the VTC should be reduced as well but not blanked as there will be no lubrication to the front cam journal unless you modify the cam shaft to reinstate the flow.
Guys try to keep the discussion civil with no personal attacks. Its a good discussion. We are trying to get info from a few guys who have built quite a few VG30 between them. I am learning stuff. I am interested in Erics comment about rod bearings wearing first (I have found the same thing BTW in the 10 or so engines I have stripped down) Can anyone comment about rod end lubrication? I have a 3 qrt Accusump, as well as a modded sump with extra trap door and Mitches windage kit kit fitted as well as a hi flowed oil pump with increased spring pressure. IS this gonna sort most of these oil issues or what? Also Mungyz comment about VTC blanking. I wont be using the VTC with the R5's. Should I leave the back channels open or close them off if there is a oiling issue up front of the cams? More detail about your comments please. I dont remember any oiling holes in the actual cam shafts (going to have another look) Thought the oiling holes where in the heads/journal.
we'll agree to disagree. Im tired of going back and forth with you. You do your thing and I'll do mine.
Drag V Circuit Circuit cars run much hotter, as on they are on the loud peddle for many minutes, not seconds, also braking and cornering G Forces, can cause oil starvation. Similar powered engines that is. A 6 second huge hp car will be stressed more than a circuit car with less than half the hp. Tecktrader we ran four exhaust cams for years in our race car with no issues, lighter and more reliable. Chev oil system, What The? Oil gallery mods?? You mean deburring and open up the oil drains in the block?
There is the oil gallery in the head that feeds the camshaft bearings/journals and there is a separate gallery at the front of the head that supplies oil to the front bearing/journal & provides the oil supply to the VTC via the small hole in the camshaft between the two bearing surfaces at the cam gear end of the cam. (crappy big sentence LOL!) If the VTC is not to be used ever then there are a couple of options: Insert dowel in end of camshaft to block off oil supply in to the camshaft itself , this is easy to do and takes minimal effort if you have the gear. this also allows the valves at the other end to be removed as they will no longer do anything. If you have the dowel blocking the jet/port in the cam then you can reduce the size of the jet in the block significantly and reduce demand for oil to that part of the engine. THIS is the best option. Alternatively you can either blank off the end of the camshaft where the oil control valve normally goes (preferred) OR leave the valve there - they don't leak normally. With this option you are left with a couple of chambers in the oil system that are effectively dead ends, this will tend to trap air & could potentially cause issues at the front cam bearings. Either way get a couple of plugs turned up to remove the VTC solenoids (same as the AMS & other ally exh cam half moons except a full circle) this way you remove a potential leak point and remove clutter etc. EDIT: obviously fitting exh cams in place of the inlet cams in another option that will work fine, the comment of "this is the best option" refers to having a full set of cams both inlet and exh
Do you work or have you worked on any other engine platform besides an import? Worked on any cummins diesel engines? small block chevy or big block chevy engines? Worked with any other oiling system other than a cross drilled system that is used by all import manufactures? There is a huge difference in how the oiling system. My point of view on the oiling system on a VG is different that all others it seems. And I'm ok with that. I've been around minor builds from 350HP all the way to 3000HP and seeing and knowing the different systems and how to implement them into a setup that can benefit from it is a win/win. Thats all I've done, I've taken what I've seen work for other platforms and cross bred it into the Nissans. None of you have to believe in what I do but the bottom line is that the modifications that I do, do work and show zero signs of failures. Every engine builder has their own way of doing things...this is my way. Nothing wrong with that.
THAT is a flat out lie apparently. I'm sure John has plenty of experience on many different engines other than what you call imports, in NZ at least we don't look at vehicles on a local Vs import basis as ALL are imported now from across the globe. Australia is not quite the same but still has a large variety of manufacturers feeding products into the market. If you were talking to me then I've been working on pretty much anything for over 20 years now and been studying engines and crap since I was about 8 years old. Yip I'm one of the geeks that used to read books instead of playing sports at lunchtime. I wouldn't try bringing bulldozer tech into the discussion some of us might spill our coffee :rofl:
And you would know what engines I"ve built that utilize my oiling upgrades right? Doubtful. I have at least 3 engines out there running in dedicated road course cars that run to this day and run quite well. No issues what so ever. I wasn't talking to you I was responding to John. Way to go on jumping the gun. And you spoke of "noisy american"....think you need to chill and go take a breather. I could care less what you've done since you were 8yrs old. You don't build engines for a living nor run a machine shop so I would be inclined to say I'm around this stuff a bit more than you are. But as I've stated for the 5th time now...you do your thing and I'll do mine. I know that there are a lot of different things brought into your borders but fact is you don't have as much as we do or readily available like we do here in the US. Yes you have V8s and run different classes in your market but I think we have more here than you do in Aussie/NZ. Whens the last time you worked on a Pro Mod engine that made 3000HP mungzy? WHens the last time you built or worked on an LSX that made 820HP......whens the last time you worked on a cummins 24v that held diesel drag record? the list is long man...and frankly I've not seen any of your work or anything that you've claimed. Now if you have and ppl say youve worked on their engines...great...glad you could build their outfit...but please don't come at me with an attitude to be as what I'm telling ppl is bullshit when I've done quite a bit of work on various platforms and the VG30 being my favored engine I've done quite a bit that works and helps. Your choice on what you want to believe works or not...its not up for discussion honestly. All the oiling upgrades I build/machine/install work without issue.
http://www.twinturbo.net/nissan/300...418/Product-reveiw-Of-a-EP-racing-Engine.html People can take from this what they like, if they want to see more there is plenty of it they just need to search and ask the right people. "I've not seen any of your work or anything that you've claimed" you have not looked obviously, what I have done post 2006 is out there easy to find both good and bad, stuff has gone wrong and stuff has gone well but at least there are results for people to see. Your workmanship has failed badly in this example if we can trust the poster of the thread above - I don't know if one would bother to make it all up. I've heard PLENTY of very bad things about you Mr EPR regarding workmanship and financial dealings etc but I've kept it off the forums as none of it is anything to do with myself & I can't confirm its truth. You are now having a crack at people to try and discredit them so people will go with what you say, I don't appreciate that at all. I didn't jump the gun, read the post carefully I gave you a response first off to your post as if it were intended for John, then in case I had got it wrong a response if it were aimed at me. Perhaps you should address the person you want to talk to so as to avoid any confusion in the future - seeing as you are the one getting confused this would be helpful to yourself! "You don't build engines for a living" No I don't I build them as PART of my living, I also fix them when asshats mess them up for customers & this gets very disheartening at times. I hate watching people spend money on bad deals. Lets just take this back to the beginning aye: You claim the engine featured here will do 1500HP - not a snowflakes hope in hell! pretty much everybody here who is capable of building high HP engines will agree with that regardless of the minor details in your argument. You claim the stock oil system is crap and has to be upgraded - my point of view and that of many others is that it is fine for street cars essentially but NO ONE is denying it could do with some work once you go above that. You have started bashing at peoples experience in an attempt to make yourself look more experienced therefore the better one to believe - all in an attempt to sell more product/services. I don't try to sell eng rebuilds offshore, I've had one or two enquires but it's not what I prefer to do so I stand to gain very little here other than maybe saving a few people from a little heartache.
I in no way am trying to make myself better than anyone else...but when you come at me as you do of course anyone would take defense. You don't have any first hand knowledge of the link you've posted so why post something you yourself can't comment on or have no knowledge about in regards to the build. Yet again its very easy to jump on the band wagon. You state talk to the right ppl...the only ppl that know anything about that engine is myself and the owner. So how could any other person know anything about the build? My workmanship is consistant and I can back that up with every build I've done thats been posted on facebook where anyone can see the work applied and done. Even simple machining jobs I've done for clients that went and built their own engine...guess what....NO ISSUES. Financial dealings you speak of?...EP Racing is a business and my time I value as well as my work. If individuals think its too expensive there are others out there that they can choose to do the work they need. I'm not the only one out here doing this kind of work however I feel I do more detail work and pay more attention than other builds I've seen. And you are correct you have kept it off the forums...because as you stated you don't know any truth to any of it but you so easily post up a link as to suggest you know or want to stir the pot more. Please stop while you are ahead. You build engines as a part of your living...thats great...many do that and you think I don't fix problems from other builds? Do you have any idea the condition the customers engine was in prior to him sending it to me? No you don't...cause if you did you'd see the night and day difference. So do not over step your bounds. The bad things you think you have on me? Are you keeping tabs to take me to court or something? Have I looked into your dealings in what you've done or don't do or any of the bad or good?...no because its none of my business nor does it affect my business. The problem I see is that you think its advantageous for you to yield pre-notion to others about who I am and what I do. Has anyone not gotten their parts they've purchased from me? Were some late...yes but I got them taken care of and things are moving along. My reply was to John...as you can plainly see i posted directly below his...if I posted from you the little dotted line would show off your post. So again you jumped the gun in not knowing who said what to who. The engine that was being shown had all the capability in the world of making that suggested HP mark. I think you still think the figure is wheel HP...you do realize the different between BHP and WHP correct? No where in the thread (that I recall) does it state this engine will make 1500rwhp. There are plenty of other engines out there that have been built that make 1000rwhp (1170-1200BHP) using smaller turbos...cast log manifolds and a lot less work...and you're telling me the upgrades I did to the block and heads and the parts this customer put into the build aren't capable?....get off your high horse man. Seriously. I'm going to let this be the end of my dealings in this thread as I can see its nothing more than a pissing contest with you as you only have one way of thinking. I already told you that you can do things your way and I'll go mine and yet here you are STILL poking at the horse. Give it a rest man. If you are so angry or disagree with my work why don't you just keep your comments to yourself and just go about your business. Last I checked nothing I do affects ANYTHING of what you do.
sad to see two great minds acting like 3yearolds fighting over a half-sucked lollypop....... Agree to disagree ....... get over it Every engine builder I've ever met has perculiar ways of doing things, some work & some ..... well lets just say no-one will ever know why The weirdest builder I ever met ONLY ever used water melted from his fridge's iced up freezer to mix with the machine oil, sure we joked about it even to his face...... we allways called it the new motor baptisim water :rofl: Strangely enough he was unquestionably one of the best engine builders in the world and should I choose to mention his name I'm sure others on this forum would know of pop's reputation instantly...... Both of you also have "your way" of building engines and for what ever reason YOU fully belive YOUR WAY is the BEST......... & so-long as that way works for you then dont change a damn thing. Over the years I've played with a large range of engines and their modifications, from RT Hemi's / Katana motors / RZ250's / 308's / 010 chevs / to the more modern zed motor and recently the S/C six. All of them have in some way benifitted from oil gallery modifications, from small mods to major re-working. I've won some of the most prestegious motoring events on this country both as a rider / driver and as an engine builder for others...... and like anyone thats ever built a 'performance engine' I've had a few failures that to this day are unknown as to why they failed....... not enough batisim water perhaps :rofl: as for this bullshyte about drag V's circut cars....... couldnt have put it any better...... So true Now get back to the tech & take the B/S arguing to PM if you must continue with the childish display. :br:
