Converting a Slicktop NA to TT.

Discussion in 'Member's Garage' started by samuraigecko, May 1, 2010.

  1. Chrispy

    Chrispy Pretentious Upstart

    It is very common for water to air coolers to be mounted on top. They do this with the Group A GT4 Celica's. It gives super short pipework from the turbo to inlet manifold.

    I think you are going to have trouble making it fit well in a Zed. It's large, bulky and heavy. And you need another radiator out the front.
     
  2. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko New Member

    The radiator thing I can sort out easily because a friend of mine works for Geelong Rad who makes custom radiators. I was thinking of making 2 small ones to go where the SMIC's would go.

    This is the approach I was going to take.

    2 WAIC's mounted to each side of the motor and heat shielded. They are available in a type small enough (thin) to "perhaps" fit where I am thinking.
    Appropriate pipe work for air routing meaning it would be as short as possible to help reduce lag.
    Independent water supply and pump so not to use the engines water supply.
    Have this water supply go through the small radiators mounted where SMIC's would usually go and returned to independent res.
    Large open mouth front bar with a vented bonnet to allow maximum air flow further reducing any potential heat soaking from the motor.

    How does any of this sound? Or is the main problem going to be finding room for the WAIC's?
     
  3. stumagoo

    stumagoo Active Member

    I hate to sound like I am taking sides here but to me this really looks more like an example of interstate purchasing pitfalls. I have seen vehicles sold by dealers from over east try to be registered here gone over the pits and ended up costing owners an absolute fortune. not nessecarily anyones negligence more likely overzealous inspectors trying to keep what they deem a POS off the streets.
     
  4. tassuperkart

    tassuperkart Its a lie I tell you!

    Im using W2A intercooling on my ute.
    I dont care what my engine bay looks like so laugh it up if you like, but it works and works well. Look like this:

    [​IMG]

    Shows where the cooler core lives and gives an idea of the radiator size.

    Its an age old debate with enough pros and cons to keep most of the Einsteins argumentative for the rest of their lives.
    Turbocharged F1 engines ran water in favour of air coolers to reduce the severity of IAT changes on and off boost (50psi plus).
    The air coolers are a little more efficient but much more prone to flutuating temps which are far harder to tune around than slight elevated but more stable IAT's.
    For a similar efficiency of cooler, the air core is closer to 3 times the physical size of the watercooler.

    No youd never share cooling it with your engine water system as you simply be heating your inlet charge to closde to engine water temp!!!! No gains to be had there!

    My IAT's remain very close to ambient most of the time on boost, so its nice to often see -3 or -4 Deg.C inlet temps on a cold Tassie morning boosting up the long hills on the highway up to town and frost on the downstream cooler piping!

    The key to successful W2A cooling is to have as much radiator area as possible to loose accumulated heat.
    A2A's have large radiating areas and loose this heat quickly. If the water rads dont have enough rad area exposed to airflow then the IAT's continue to climb over and above what the air coolers would see for the same boosting conditions and take much longer to come back down. However, they are less prone to inlet temp "spiking" than if an air system was too small.
    No real biggie tho for the watercooler as the IAT's tend to far more stable over the same operating conditions as air coolers and this can be easily tuned around.
    Just a function of the heat being removed by water, stored and then the heat being removed form the water itself.

    My radiator is not too far from the same size as the cars own radiator and being a multi-pass type with top and bottom tanks (same as car rad) single core (25mm deep) thing it allows very high volumes of water to circulate thru the system.
    The serious dudes also run a fan on the cooler rad as well to account for heat buildup in slow traffic. Some merit in this but I didnt bother and when doing traffic light blasts, who cares if you loose a few Ft/Lb of torque. Once on the go, the temps drop away very quickly with even quite slow forwards speeds.
    A downside here is the reduction in airflow thru to the engine radiator. My AC condenser lives tightly between the cooler rad and engine rad and airflow is definitely compromised at slow speeds. My engine builds heat very quickly when in traffic but if your fan clutch is working correctly and your cooling system is up to scratch, it shouldnt/wont be an issue. Youll just hear your fan running harder more often in traffic is all.

    The water pump is a Bosch W2A re-circ pump off a supercharged Ford Cobra. The Bosch pump uses a magnetic coupling to the pump so there is no dynamic seal to fail eventually and is virtually silent when running and draws under 2 amps when loaded. Exxie yes at 150 odd dollars but imho well worthwhile in the long run.
    You can go ghetto and use a cheap water pump found in marine and caravans. I believe these pumps are noisy and not very reliable when used full time tho.

    Some dudes cheap out and use old AC condenser cores as radiators but these are a single pass item designed to condense high pressure gas to a liquid at far slower flow rates, hold reduced volume of water and due to a long, convoluted single narrow tube, are very restrictive to water flow.

    My system is plumbed up with 20mm I.D hoses and the water simply pisses out like a hose on full blast if you pull a hose off and run the pump. The system empties itself in seconds!

    Id doubt youd fit a W2A cooler itself anywhere under a zed bonnet tho. The heat changer core measures about 375mm square x 130mm deep. (600Hp this one) I cant think of anywhere something like that will live and still be able to plumb 3" pipes to it.

    Dont be sucked into the pipe length V's lag debate M8. It just isnt the issue in real life that most of the armchair experts would have you believe if they had their way!!! Same for the large diameter piping and the time taken to "fill" is when boosting..(OMFG........! what bollocks)
    If the pipework is well made with sweeps rather than tight elbows the worst case scenario is some increased flutter volume on throttle off! I personally use 2.5" but only because I had it laying around. I would have used 3" otherwise. Just coz it looks trick!
    Run the stock TT recirc BOVs and that flutter issues will reduce or even dissappear unless you actually want it.

    The W2A system is far more complicated, exxie and fiddly to initiall install and set up than a aircooler but IMHO is well worth the time, money and effort. Street cred if little else!!!!

    L8r
    E
     
  5. samuraigecko

    samuraigecko New Member

    what interstate purchasing? LOL
     

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