Abflug Widebody kit BLEET :)

Discussion in 'Non Technical' started by ZX-89, Mar 6, 2008.

  1. rollin

    rollin First 9

    what im saying is, the only reason i would agree with that being the appropriate action is that if there is current legal action taking place and that having it in an open forum would some how affect the proceedings?

    If that is not the case then you guys are right that it is being sugar coated and covered up
  2. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    The plan was for Jason to import the kit, and he had allegedly gained exclusive permission to make a limited number of reproductions.... Never mind the biggest performance houses in the world, this forum member from Aus had managed to sweet talk Ab Flug into letting him copy it. Alarm bells going off yet???

    Anyway the guy you are referring to was supposed to copy them, but he doesn't know any more about it than the rest of us. Jason aka ZX2NV went MIA with the $$.
  3. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    I don't think this is a forum position, there really isn't anything that mods can do anyway. It would be up to the members involved to go to police or file a civil suit, I mean they know the guy's name, bank account, address, business... that's everything you need.

    But we are talking years now so probably getting to used by date and conveniently I think most of those affected are on the other side of the country.

    See comments from Vbevan above -he was one of the victims.

    I don't know why anyone has time for this guy (back to Jason), every time this comes up it gives me the shits. Likewise I am not convinced he set the buy up to scam someone, but there comes a point where you make a choice to do the right thing or to steal from those who have put their trust in you. Transfers made to a personal account don't "accidently" get spent on wages/creditors/etc when your Proprietry Limited company goes to the wall.

    Trust me I have handled $100k at least in forum member money doing group buys etc over the past couple of years, you don't "mistake" it for your own!

    As I said above I don't think it is a case of forum admin covering up and really there is nothing they can do that they haven't. Forum members however should be telling anyone who will listen, for those ripped off it's the least they can do to return the favour...
  4. SedatZX

    SedatZX Tyranus

    I agree with Rob.. All that we can do is hope the bastard rotts in hell for all eternity :)
  5. Mitch

    Mitch Has one gear: GO

    And back to you chili, no way in hell will I revoke that comment.
    People paid a significant amount of cash to this guy, and he bailed. The bloke was a prominent member of this discussion forum, and the racing community, and royally screwed everyone without a word of apology or explanation.

    And before I am accused of stirring this argument, I have had a bad experience with this seller, going all the way back to a certain radiator group buy which never eventuated for me, which was only resolved through weeks of persistent nagging for a refund. Maybe I'm just bitter, or one of the few that is not too stupid to see what actually happened in this BEET GB situation...

    As Rob put it, personal funds and business funds should not mix. If this bloke was that cashed up, his accountant would definately have been able to ensure this. And who really gives a damn what this guy did for a living. Horse flu or not, he has fraudulently taken people's money and not delivered what was promised. Any businessman with a dollar to his name should understand this most basic of principles- you take people's money and don't deliver what is promised, you are a thief. Or maybe the horse racing industry does not work that way.... we all know how Crooked the racing industry is now, don't we...

    Oh, I just had a great idea... Next time my business needs to undergo a capital raising scheme, I think I'll hold a Aus300zx.com group buy for laughs. :W: What could be better than raising thousands of dollars on a permanent interest free loan with nil returns to the investors. Hell, maybe he was onto a 'good thing'.

    To add insult to injury, this forum, and the powers that be, swept this whole incident aside, covered it up and suppressed discussion on this matter. I would love to hear the motivations of the moderating team in doing so.
    Let us take a moment to compare the BEET Gb to the MOFO GB. The MOFO GB gained international attention, reached numerous pages of discussion, making a mockery of the whole situation, the seller, the reputation of the forum, and the 'customers' involved. Based on the scale of the BEET GB, should we not expect a similar outcome??? Should we not expect the 'name and shame' to be carried on in the BEET example?

    By covering future failed group buys up, does this really maintain a transparent marketplace for our members to conduct business? Should we not be able to research a potential purchase without having to wade through hear-say regarding a seller who did so much 'good' but finished with one large 'wrong'? By moving all related discussion to a private arena, the whole transparency concept is void.

    To sum up, Jason screwed a lot of people for a lot of money. Not many people know this, and should be aware of what actually happened, irrespective of the personal financial situation of the group buy organizer. Negligence on Jason's behalf was played down on this forum in attempt to reach a positive outcome, which to date has still not been reached. I'm sure multiple members would vouch for this- members who to date, have remained incredibly quiet. Let the discussion be transparent, I say...
  6. CHILI

    CHILI Indestructable Target

    You have made countless accusations on this issue without one scrap of proven factual evidence(beyond the fact that the deal went bad).
    You have chosen to ignore what possible damage you may cause to any prospective legal actions being contemplated(or already in train)to help recover the lost funding.
    You have no personal involvement in this issue(except your desire to beat your drum), and you have slandered the moderating team(and any other person calling for some amount of damage control to be excised). In short, you're talking through your ass.
    NOBODY has attempted to excuse the actions that followed from the financial collapse of Jason's business, nor is there any validity to your attempt to somehow smear this issue with comments about people in the horse racing industry.
    In short, you are a very small-minded individual trying to gain some undeserved stature from other peoples misfortune, and it serves you no credit.
    Sure, Jason handled this matter very poorly, but you will need to come up with more than unsubstantiated claptrap before I will accept your suggestion that this was the plan from day one.
    By the way, I almost got on board this failed GB(except I was short of spending money at the time), and I looked at all the relevant documentation pertaining to the purchase and shipping of the items from AbFlug, so I KNOW it was not intended as a scam.

    I wonder how you(or I)might behave if faced with the total collapse of everything we had worked for, and with creditors bashing down the door of not only our business, but also our family home(and a young family relying on their Father for protection and nurturing)?
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2009
  7. Mitch

    Mitch Has one gear: GO

    You are a deluded old man Chili.
    For someone with such a prominent past, I thought you for one, would be quite knowledgeable on the whole concept of 'right vs wrong'.
    This argument is not about me big-noting myself to a bunch of strangers over the internet, nor is it about my desire to 'hamper legal proceedings' with information that has already surfaced and is already freely available in the public domain.
    This argument is about ZX2NV- a bloke who everyone believed the sun shone out of his arse, right up until he ran off with a reportedly large (but still unknown) sum of money. Then people played the waiting game, and still nothing has eventuated.

    And about the debtors wanting their money... If he was a sole trader / in a partnership, then he personally is liable to cover all shortcomings of the business. If he was a director of a company founded by him, then he would remain protected from having to repay debtors pertaining to the business. Corporations act, 2001. Pretty basic stuff.
    Gb participants are debtors, not to the business, but to Jason himself, and are entitled to their monies irrespective of the state of his business. Just as you can sue a business, you can sue a individual, and its all the same whether the individual has the capacity to pay or not.
  8. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    Again based on information in the public domain, five kits, $2990/piece... So just under $15k.
  9. CHILI

    CHILI Indestructable Target

    Personal attacks on me(popular though they may be)don't serve to show you in good light Mitch.
    No one(myself included)has suggested that Jason is NOT responsible or liable for his debts or commitments.
    What has been said is that he did not set out to defraud anyone, but when the "crap hit the fan"(due in no way to his wrongdoing)he handled the situation in a very unsatisfactory manner.
    You may have thought "the Sun shone out of Jason's arse", but if you are correct in that remark(and about him being impossible to find), then look around, the Sun is still shining.
    I have my own theory about what went wrong with the GB(but that's all it is, a theory)and it's not going to be aired on here.
    I feel immense sympathy for those handful of people who have been hurt by this mess(I was almost one of them)but it doesn't preclude me from having some compassion for Jason as well.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2009
  10. rob260

    rob260 Administrator Staff Member

    But Chili this is entirely irrelevant.

    I don't think he is the only one on the forum to have had a business go belly up, Fleet is another one who comes to mind (and who did alot more for forum and its members...).
  11. CHILI

    CHILI Indestructable Target

    Why is my expressed uncertainty about how I might react in similar circumstances, irrelevant?
    What is irrelevant is you choosing to draw a comparison between this matter and Fleet's unfortunate problems.
    Every human being reacts differently to every other, that's what makes us individuals.
    Fleet handled his situation differently(and as a result was the recipient of a great deal of sympathy). Jason did not.

    Different people, different circumstances, different course of action, different outcome.
  12. Zilla32

    Zilla32 New Member

    I like it!
    Gonna cost abit more to get it fitted as good as it looks on the picture.
  13. 300zxt

    300zxt Well-Known Member

    Lets talk dollar$..

    How much cash did he scoot off with? That'll determine the level of pounding he should recieve...
  14. rollin

    rollin First 9

    15 large i think
  15. ZEDZY

    ZEDZY Active Member

    You can sit here and chat about it all you want but that doesnt really help get the money back.
  16. 300zxt

    300zxt Well-Known Member


    Well if he still has his Z I say it gets carved up between the GB members and auctioned off! lol That car would be worth more in bits than a complete vehicle anyway! :p
  17. vbevan

    vbevan Active Member

    Problem is "Where in the world is ZX2NV" lol. Else that could be a plan.
  18. K-zed

    K-zed Secret Squirrel

    Funny that? ...

    ... Members involved in the ZX2NV rip-off had a 'private forum' in which to deal with the issue. Nothing was resolved and Forum recently closed, by mutual consent.

    Mitch and Co may wish to look elsewhere as Moderators provided every opportunity and encouragement to seek a re-imbursement or other legal resolution.
  19. DavidWells

    DavidWells New Member

    im pretty sure this threads been hijacked and is irrelevant to ZX89 and his progress etc..
  20. rollin

    rollin First 9

    i dont think anyone was blaming the moderators . unless i missed that ??

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